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	<title>Comments on: Freedom of Choice is What You&#8217;ve Got&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199</link>
	<description>These are our principles.  If you don&#039;t like them, we have others...</description>
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		<title>By: Mighty Skip</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37489</link>
		<dc:creator>Mighty Skip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37489</guid>
		<description>It is interesting you use the Fedex vs. the USPS analogy because this actually highlights a huge problem with using the federal government that Rufus touched on.

The USPS never offered overnight delivery despite the demand. They said for years and years it was impossible. Then Fedex said &quot;F--- you Post Office&quot; and did it. And now, lo&#039; and behold they offer overnight delivery. The problem being is that what if the Feds forced Fedex out of business before they started doing overnight delivery? We&#039;d never have it.

There is no guarantee that the legislation will force private insurances under, but there are several clauses in it which raise that concern for me. When private insurers are gone, where will the innovations come from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting you use the Fedex vs. the USPS analogy because this actually highlights a huge problem with using the federal government that Rufus touched on.</p>
<p>The USPS never offered overnight delivery despite the demand. They said for years and years it was impossible. Then Fedex said &#8220;F&#8212; you Post Office&#8221; and did it. And now, lo&#8217; and behold they offer overnight delivery. The problem being is that what if the Feds forced Fedex out of business before they started doing overnight delivery? We&#8217;d never have it.</p>
<p>There is no guarantee that the legislation will force private insurances under, but there are several clauses in it which raise that concern for me. When private insurers are gone, where will the innovations come from?</p>
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		<title>By: G-MAN</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37476</link>
		<dc:creator>G-MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37476</guid>
		<description>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124779717982855785.html
A reckless congress, indeed.  They plan to push as much through as they can to 1. Try to create their uptopian ideals. 2. Attempt to push things far enough it will take a long time to undo. 3. Change the way things work to what they think how it should work (even though it has failed every time in history). 4. Make people dependent upon government so they become permanently dependent That&#039;s where the slavery enters, such as the generations of families living on welfare.

If people were created in the image of God, then we are creators.  Creativity ends when limitation occurs.  Dependency evolves into limitation.  When the mind gets enveloped in limitation, slavery occurs.  If the government dictates what you can and can&#039;t do, it becomes the master, you become the slave.  It&#039;s more than laws and regulations.  It&#039;s what happens to the mind and therefore the soul.  

When are you the happiest? When you are creating something.  You have a sense of purpose.  If you work and earn money and buy something with it, you have a sense of value.  You earned it.  Handouts from the government breeds entitlement.  We have gotten close to the edge of the cliff already.  Look at society today and see how much of an entitlement mentality already exists.  That&#039;s how Obama got elected.  He promised the world, and they believed.  They still do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124779717982855785.html" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124779717982855785.html</a><br />
A reckless congress, indeed.  They plan to push as much through as they can to 1. Try to create their uptopian ideals. 2. Attempt to push things far enough it will take a long time to undo. 3. Change the way things work to what they think how it should work (even though it has failed every time in history). 4. Make people dependent upon government so they become permanently dependent That&#8217;s where the slavery enters, such as the generations of families living on welfare.</p>
<p>If people were created in the image of God, then we are creators.  Creativity ends when limitation occurs.  Dependency evolves into limitation.  When the mind gets enveloped in limitation, slavery occurs.  If the government dictates what you can and can&#8217;t do, it becomes the master, you become the slave.  It&#8217;s more than laws and regulations.  It&#8217;s what happens to the mind and therefore the soul.  </p>
<p>When are you the happiest? When you are creating something.  You have a sense of purpose.  If you work and earn money and buy something with it, you have a sense of value.  You earned it.  Handouts from the government breeds entitlement.  We have gotten close to the edge of the cliff already.  Look at society today and see how much of an entitlement mentality already exists.  That&#8217;s how Obama got elected.  He promised the world, and they believed.  They still do.</p>
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		<title>By: fritz8945</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37467</link>
		<dc:creator>fritz8945</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37467</guid>
		<description>I never cared much for boiled frog. Especially when that frog was me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never cared much for boiled frog. Especially when that frog was me!</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37464</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37464</guid>
		<description>You are right, Fritz, but I think many liberals, including Barack, understand this, and know it&#039;s a losing strategy.  Where they differ from you and I is they think they can boil the frog slowly, and stop the burner just before the frog dies.  (I just deleted a bunch more, and realize this needs to be a post.  More soon?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, Fritz, but I think many liberals, including Barack, understand this, and know it&#8217;s a losing strategy.  Where they differ from you and I is they think they can boil the frog slowly, and stop the burner just before the frog dies.  (I just deleted a bunch more, and realize this needs to be a post.  More soon?)</p>
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		<title>By: fritz8945</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37457</link>
		<dc:creator>fritz8945</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37457</guid>
		<description>Because it feeeeels so gooood, Rufus! And you know if it feels good then it must be done. That is the Dems prime directive. Unfortunately this &quot;Robin Hood&quot; mentality they have doesn&#039;t work in a situation such as ours. When it&#039;s all over with and the tally sheets are compiled the people who are put upon now will have been put upon more. Less jobs=more gubment control and more gubment control=disaster!

BHO-WHO has this damnable utopian dream that if you kill the rich bastards a level playing field will be the result. Not so. The rich will still be there, but fewer in number. The poor will still be there, but higher in number. You can&#039;t keep taking from the rich and expect their ability to keep employing the middle class to continue as has been the case for lo these many years. How many jobs are created by poor people? NONE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because it feeeeels so gooood, Rufus! And you know if it feels good then it must be done. That is the Dems prime directive. Unfortunately this &#8220;Robin Hood&#8221; mentality they have doesn&#8217;t work in a situation such as ours. When it&#8217;s all over with and the tally sheets are compiled the people who are put upon now will have been put upon more. Less jobs=more gubment control and more gubment control=disaster!</p>
<p>BHO-WHO has this damnable utopian dream that if you kill the rich bastards a level playing field will be the result. Not so. The rich will still be there, but fewer in number. The poor will still be there, but higher in number. You can&#8217;t keep taking from the rich and expect their ability to keep employing the middle class to continue as has been the case for lo these many years. How many jobs are created by poor people? NONE!</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37453</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37453</guid>
		<description>G-MAN,

That slavery point is not insignificant.  Yes, it sounds like hyperbole, but what else is it when I am forced, by threat of incarceration, to work so that the government can take the fruits of my labor and give my wages to somebody else?

This goes back to my earlier post about the government trying to fix the wrong problem.  BarryO thinks health care is too expensive.  If that&#039;s the case, do as you write, and attack the areas that are driving costs up.  &quot;Government&quot; cannot do that.  &quot;Government&quot; is nothing more than a group of U.S. citizens doing a job.  We have the same pool of 300 million citizens to choose from.  Why will people work better and smarter as part of a government agency than they will in the private sector?  Unfortunately, the opposite is all too often true, but even if it weren&#039;t, even if folks do the same work in the public or private sector, how can taking the employees from private sector health care, and shifting them to the public sector make them work cheaper, or better?  It&#039;s the same pool of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G-MAN,</p>
<p>That slavery point is not insignificant.  Yes, it sounds like hyperbole, but what else is it when I am forced, by threat of incarceration, to work so that the government can take the fruits of my labor and give my wages to somebody else?</p>
<p>This goes back to my earlier post about the government trying to fix the wrong problem.  BarryO thinks health care is too expensive.  If that&#8217;s the case, do as you write, and attack the areas that are driving costs up.  &#8220;Government&#8221; cannot do that.  &#8220;Government&#8221; is nothing more than a group of U.S. citizens doing a job.  We have the same pool of 300 million citizens to choose from.  Why will people work better and smarter as part of a government agency than they will in the private sector?  Unfortunately, the opposite is all too often true, but even if it weren&#8217;t, even if folks do the same work in the public or private sector, how can taking the employees from private sector health care, and shifting them to the public sector make them work cheaper, or better?  It&#8217;s the same pool of people.</p>
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		<title>By: G-MAN</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37447</link>
		<dc:creator>G-MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37447</guid>
		<description>Government run ANYTHING is expensive and inefficient.  If they want to fix the high cost of medical care issue, then legislate the reason for the high cost...the court system in allowing huge payouts for malpractice lawsuits etc.

Basically, more government is less freedom.  Less freedom is slavery.  Government giving handouts is the worse thing it can do to a person.  It causes them to become dependent.  Dependency erodes the mind.  We are truly headed in the wrong direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Government run ANYTHING is expensive and inefficient.  If they want to fix the high cost of medical care issue, then legislate the reason for the high cost&#8230;the court system in allowing huge payouts for malpractice lawsuits etc.</p>
<p>Basically, more government is less freedom.  Less freedom is slavery.  Government giving handouts is the worse thing it can do to a person.  It causes them to become dependent.  Dependency erodes the mind.  We are truly headed in the wrong direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37445</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37445</guid>
		<description>BarryO,

You write, &quot;We want affordable options. These options are not provided in the current structure of health care.&quot;

First, how can adding another layer to the system, a government bureaucracy, lead to better efficiency?  If you truly believe the private market has not driven prices down to their lowest possible levels, how does adding more employees to the puzzle lead to lower prices?  We&#039;ve got hospitals, doctors, nurses, orderlies, claims adjusters, pharmacists, medical equipment, beds, syringes, bandages.... now.  We&#039;ve got all the components we need to provide health care, and all those components are competing now for patients&#039; money.  If the bandage company charges too much for their product I, and the hospital and the nurses will switch to a cheaper bandage of the same, or better quality.  That&#039;s all in place now.  So how does adding an extra layer of employees to the system make any of those things cheaper?  Now we&#039;ve got to work their salaries into the cost of all those items.  If you truly are interested in bringing costs down (and I believe you are), you should be lobbying to take the insurance companies out of the system so patients are dealing directly with health care providers.

Second, we are not all going to be able to afford great health care.  You use the term &quot;affordable health care.&quot;  What is &quot;affordable health care?&quot;  When I was starting out on my own, paying for College and working nights at minimum wage jobs, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, Swanson pot pies, Ramen noodles and Kraft macaroni and cheese were affordable.  That&#039;s what I lived on.  Now I can&#039;t believe how inexpensive those items are!  They are no longer affordable, they&#039;re downright cheap.  I understand that Warren Buffet is going to get better health care than I do.  If he and I get the same, terminal illness he will live longer.  He has A LOT of money and he can afford things I cannot.  So, what is affordable, and why is it the government&#039;s job to ensure all U.S. citizens can &quot;afford&quot; something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BarryO,</p>
<p>You write, &#8220;We want affordable options. These options are not provided in the current structure of health care.&#8221;</p>
<p>First, how can adding another layer to the system, a government bureaucracy, lead to better efficiency?  If you truly believe the private market has not driven prices down to their lowest possible levels, how does adding more employees to the puzzle lead to lower prices?  We&#8217;ve got hospitals, doctors, nurses, orderlies, claims adjusters, pharmacists, medical equipment, beds, syringes, bandages&#8230;. now.  We&#8217;ve got all the components we need to provide health care, and all those components are competing now for patients&#8217; money.  If the bandage company charges too much for their product I, and the hospital and the nurses will switch to a cheaper bandage of the same, or better quality.  That&#8217;s all in place now.  So how does adding an extra layer of employees to the system make any of those things cheaper?  Now we&#8217;ve got to work their salaries into the cost of all those items.  If you truly are interested in bringing costs down (and I believe you are), you should be lobbying to take the insurance companies out of the system so patients are dealing directly with health care providers.</p>
<p>Second, we are not all going to be able to afford great health care.  You use the term &#8220;affordable health care.&#8221;  What is &#8220;affordable health care?&#8221;  When I was starting out on my own, paying for College and working nights at minimum wage jobs, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, Swanson pot pies, Ramen noodles and Kraft macaroni and cheese were affordable.  That&#8217;s what I lived on.  Now I can&#8217;t believe how inexpensive those items are!  They are no longer affordable, they&#8217;re downright cheap.  I understand that Warren Buffet is going to get better health care than I do.  If he and I get the same, terminal illness he will live longer.  He has A LOT of money and he can afford things I cannot.  So, what is affordable, and why is it the government&#8217;s job to ensure all U.S. citizens can &#8220;afford&#8221; something?</p>
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		<title>By: BarryO</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37387</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37387</guid>
		<description>I read the older posts.  I see that you don&#039;t want government involvement and our money tied up into this.  We are not a country willing or wanting socialism.  We want affordable options.  These options are not provided in the current structure of health care.  I say that providing an option does not eliminate the free market or capitalism.  I have no crystal ball, but it could lower costs all the way around.  Yes, you have to pay a couple of bucks a day.  If you don&#039;t use it, then hopefully (although no guarantee) your premiums would drop to offset some of the cost. 
Oh, I don&#039;t trust the government to get it running smoothly (it won&#039;t be all rainbows and gumdrops), but they are offering health care regardless of preexisting conditions which is huge.  Many people can&#039;t get insured for that very reason.  We founded our country on freedom of choice. You can choose the post office or fedex.  Both will work and both exist in America&#039;s free market.  The government has power but it can&#039;t redefine our economy and free market society. Not even us bleeding-heart liberals would stand for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the older posts.  I see that you don&#8217;t want government involvement and our money tied up into this.  We are not a country willing or wanting socialism.  We want affordable options.  These options are not provided in the current structure of health care.  I say that providing an option does not eliminate the free market or capitalism.  I have no crystal ball, but it could lower costs all the way around.  Yes, you have to pay a couple of bucks a day.  If you don&#8217;t use it, then hopefully (although no guarantee) your premiums would drop to offset some of the cost.<br />
Oh, I don&#8217;t trust the government to get it running smoothly (it won&#8217;t be all rainbows and gumdrops), but they are offering health care regardless of preexisting conditions which is huge.  Many people can&#8217;t get insured for that very reason.  We founded our country on freedom of choice. You can choose the post office or fedex.  Both will work and both exist in America&#8217;s free market.  The government has power but it can&#8217;t redefine our economy and free market society. Not even us bleeding-heart liberals would stand for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/10199/comment-page-1#comment-37377</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=10199#comment-37377</guid>
		<description>BarryO,

Excellent point about us already paying for the uninsured.  That is true, and that gets left out too often in discussions on this topic.  I&#039;ve got two main concerns about this.  The first is what a large government plan will do to competition.  Most of the civilized world is already on socialized medicine.  The U.S. is the last, great, free market where an innovator can make a new drug or invent a new piece of medical equipment or procedure and still make a personal fortune.  What will happen when this market goes away?  Research and Development will be planned by the government.  That will have a huge, huge, negative impact on innovation.  Second is the simple issue of freedom.  Being free means we are also free to screw up our own lives.  Here is an old post I did on the topic, http://www.threedonia.com/archives/617  If you get a chance, read it.  Here&#039;s another one that deals with it from the angle of Economics, http://www.threedonia.com/archives/459

Our country is built on some fundamental principles and individual freedom and responsiblity are foremost in those ideals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BarryO,</p>
<p>Excellent point about us already paying for the uninsured.  That is true, and that gets left out too often in discussions on this topic.  I&#8217;ve got two main concerns about this.  The first is what a large government plan will do to competition.  Most of the civilized world is already on socialized medicine.  The U.S. is the last, great, free market where an innovator can make a new drug or invent a new piece of medical equipment or procedure and still make a personal fortune.  What will happen when this market goes away?  Research and Development will be planned by the government.  That will have a huge, huge, negative impact on innovation.  Second is the simple issue of freedom.  Being free means we are also free to screw up our own lives.  Here is an old post I did on the topic, <a href="http://www.threedonia.com/archives/617" rel="nofollow">http://www.threedonia.com/archives/617</a>  If you get a chance, read it.  Here&#8217;s another one that deals with it from the angle of Economics, <a href="http://www.threedonia.com/archives/459" rel="nofollow">http://www.threedonia.com/archives/459</a></p>
<p>Our country is built on some fundamental principles and individual freedom and responsiblity are foremost in those ideals.</p>
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