Oh, goodie. Another subsidy for another special interest group. Tell me again why I need to help pay for the obnoxious doglets that bark at anything that moves?
@ Eric…you will use it so long as the ostensibly edumacated populace pays taxes that provide for roads, po-lice, and armed services, etc. That shit ain’t free and though I’d prefer private education as well the fact remains that this country has been built in the 20thand 21st centuries in large part by a publicly-educated populace — through which we all benefit.
I understand it, 100% recognize and appreciate the resulting benefits (well, mostly benefits), but there’s nothing right about people who don’t have children (or send their kids to private schools) having the foot the bill for services they don’t use.
How to fix or offset it? Beyond checking off a little box on your already convoluted tax forms, I don’t know. No, wait, how about scaling back the bloated tax code system and just let we the people have more of what we earn so we can decide. C’mon, let me dream.
@ Eric and G-MAN… that’s fallacious. If you live here and benefit from an educated populace — you DO use the school services. Every cop in the country has to have at least a high school education. We have — as a people — bothe federally, locally, and in the states decided that we want a minimum level of education. It is a good thing to have cops who know how to read and write (at least basically) and who have had osme history, athletics/music, etc. A well-rounded and educated populace is a priority.
Whether you fund it through taxes directly or through tax deductions it behooves single and childless couples to have and help out people with kids. Kids push culture forward and provide for future generations. The “kids are moochers” argument goes in China and look where they’ll be in 50 years. Kids are a blessing — culturally, personally, and politically. Paying for or incentivizing their education should be a cultural priority. That being said — I’m for vouchers — and for lessened school taxes.
@ Eric… why should I foot the million dollar tax bill for my kids tyo pay into someone else’s Social Security fund or pay taxes to protect someone else via police or military? Why should I pay for tax deductions to charities I don’t support, etc.? If we ask too many of those questions nothing would ever get done. If we don’t ask enough of those questions of course then people rob the Treasury blind.
It is right and Good that EVERYONE pay somewhat for the education of children. It doesn’t take a village to raise a child necessarily (and not in the way Hillary meant it) but it does take village support.
My exception to that would be if we totally removed income taxes, went back to a tariff or something and let parents go fully private. If I could have most of my property taxes back I could afford to send my kids to private school (as it is — my kids are in a really good public school).
@ Tracy: Most public school kids are learning. There are too many failing “districts”, but most kids do all right in public schools and I say that with much first hand experience from a family of school teachers all across my family tree. Minority districts beholden to liberal ideology fail — much of that is cultural — i.e. many cultures don’t value education. Well… the best teacher in the world can’t help a kid with shitty parents. Home-schooling — which I fully support — is not an option for the majority of kids — not because of the kids, but because the parents are bad or ill-equipped.
I *know* public school kids are learning. My nephews and several of my boys best friends go to ps. Great kids, smarter than mine. excellent parents. I was an aide, my sister a teacher, and most of my extended family works in the ps system. Fine establishment. There, now how are you going to pick a fight?
Fair enough, Floyd, but who’s to say the kids in question were products of homeschooling, private schools or a military institution?
We could play devil’s advocate till Kriskey decides to renounce his allegiance to the Red Sox. I just find it harder and harder to buy into the “public school education is beneficial to everyone” with the rate on return coming out of far too many public school lacking in far too many basic educational skills.
@ Eric…. I see your point, but as in all things “don’t believe all the hype”. The overwhelming majority of public schools function fine and the overwhelming majority of kids go to public schools — the bad ones make the news — like bad cops and bad athletes. And even the private obnes are subsidized with public monies (tax deductions for tuition, etc. — also coming out of your pocket.
Floyd-
My beef is the way it is operated. Like any other government-run operation, it’s inefficient and costly. Look at the salaries of state university administration. The president of the where college I teach part-time makes about 4 times what I made as a deputy director of a pridon system. Her responsibility is about a tenth of what I had. It’s a system-wide, not a local problem. School administration, although not as bad, is still way over the top.
@G-MAN… 100% agree with that. OT — did you hear about the Chino prison riot here in CA? They tore it up — not anything near New Mexico or Attica, but the place sounds unusable.
“I just find it harder and harder to buy into the “public school education is beneficial to everyone” with the rate on return coming out of far too many public school lacking in far too many basic educational skills.”
Eric, just be quiet and fork my salary over. You’re right, of course. But since those taxes come out of your federal and property tax, the best bet is in trying to change the laws concerning illegal aliens attending our schools. The law states that you can’t even ask about US citizenship when a parent signs their kid(s) up at a school. And these kids for the most part are siphoning that money from going to more useful purposes. They ought to also pass a law that kids need to know how to read/spell their names, as well as simple C-V-C words, and count to ten, before they can apply to register at a school. Because enough of those parents who expect us to pay for their kids public education don’t want to waste their time doing what they’re supposed to. Then our tax money will go a lot further (and they’d need less of it), because when they show up in school without knowing how to do those things, they will in most cases always be behind, and keeping them back means we’re paying double for them.
@ Floyd- I didn’t hear about Chino. I’ll check it out later today.
In a conference at Santa Fe, I got a tour through Old Main, where the NM riot was. They never did re-open portions of it. I hung back from the main big-shot group and stuck with a couple of sgts trailing along. They both were working there at the time of the incident. The group got an overview. I got the real deal. (I started as a grunt and never forgot where I came from.) Those sgts were awesome! And what they told me, I’ll never forget.
You should have to pay additional taxes for having a cat. Cats are evil.
Oh, goodie. Another subsidy for another special interest group. Tell me again why I need to help pay for the obnoxious doglets that bark at anything that moves?
The big Zero was doing away with special interest groups. Did you forget?
I think it’s a-dic-a-lous, but excellent point made about offsetting public school taxes I’ll never use.
@ Eric…you will use it so long as the ostensibly edumacated populace pays taxes that provide for roads, po-lice, and armed services, etc. That shit ain’t free and though I’d prefer private education as well the fact remains that this country has been built in the 20thand 21st centuries in large part by a publicly-educated populace — through which we all benefit.
I’m with Eric on the school taxes. But I wouldn’t mind as much if they weren’t so wasteful.
I understand it, 100% recognize and appreciate the resulting benefits (well, mostly benefits), but there’s nothing right about people who don’t have children (or send their kids to private schools) having the foot the bill for services they don’t use.
How to fix or offset it? Beyond checking off a little box on your already convoluted tax forms, I don’t know. No, wait, how about scaling back the bloated tax code system and just let we the people have more of what we earn so we can decide. C’mon, let me dream.
@ Eric and G-MAN… that’s fallacious. If you live here and benefit from an educated populace — you DO use the school services. Every cop in the country has to have at least a high school education. We have — as a people — bothe federally, locally, and in the states decided that we want a minimum level of education. It is a good thing to have cops who know how to read and write (at least basically) and who have had osme history, athletics/music, etc. A well-rounded and educated populace is a priority.
Whether you fund it through taxes directly or through tax deductions it behooves single and childless couples to have and help out people with kids. Kids push culture forward and provide for future generations. The “kids are moochers” argument goes in China and look where they’ll be in 50 years. Kids are a blessing — culturally, personally, and politically. Paying for or incentivizing their education should be a cultural priority. That being said — I’m for vouchers — and for lessened school taxes.
@ Eric… why should I foot the million dollar tax bill for my kids tyo pay into someone else’s Social Security fund or pay taxes to protect someone else via police or military? Why should I pay for tax deductions to charities I don’t support, etc.? If we ask too many of those questions nothing would ever get done. If we don’t ask enough of those questions of course then people rob the Treasury blind.
It is right and Good that EVERYONE pay somewhat for the education of children. It doesn’t take a village to raise a child necessarily (and not in the way Hillary meant it) but it does take village support.
My exception to that would be if we totally removed income taxes, went back to a tariff or something and let parents go fully private. If I could have most of my property taxes back I could afford to send my kids to private school (as it is — my kids are in a really good public school).
I’m fine with paying school taxes. It keeps the public school kids out of the way while we’re busy learning
@ Tracy: Most public school kids are learning. There are too many failing “districts”, but most kids do all right in public schools and I say that with much first hand experience from a family of school teachers all across my family tree. Minority districts beholden to liberal ideology fail — much of that is cultural — i.e. many cultures don’t value education. Well… the best teacher in the world can’t help a kid with shitty parents. Home-schooling — which I fully support — is not an option for the majority of kids — not because of the kids, but because the parents are bad or ill-equipped.
Floyd,
Don’t try to hide your puppy hating ways!
You b*****d!
You just like to pick fights.
I *know* public school kids are learning. My nephews and several of my boys best friends go to ps. Great kids, smarter than mine. excellent parents. I was an aide, my sister a teacher, and most of my extended family works in the ps system. Fine establishment. There, now how are you going to pick a fight?
@Tracy… I’m not picking fights.
I have a question is this a real bill? I mean Thad McCotter is a known prankster. This just smacks of GOTCHA!
Fair enough, Floyd, but who’s to say the kids in question were products of homeschooling, private schools or a military institution?
We could play devil’s advocate till Kriskey decides to renounce his allegiance to the Red Sox. I just find it harder and harder to buy into the “public school education is beneficial to everyone” with the rate on return coming out of far too many public school lacking in far too many basic educational skills.
Now get off my damn lawn!!!
@ Eric…. I see your point, but as in all things “don’t believe all the hype”. The overwhelming majority of public schools function fine and the overwhelming majority of kids go to public schools — the bad ones make the news — like bad cops and bad athletes. And even the private obnes are subsidized with public monies (tax deductions for tuition, etc. — also coming out of your pocket.
I’m on your sidewalk!
Floyd-
My beef is the way it is operated. Like any other government-run operation, it’s inefficient and costly. Look at the salaries of state university administration. The president of the where college I teach part-time makes about 4 times what I made as a deputy director of a pridon system. Her responsibility is about a tenth of what I had. It’s a system-wide, not a local problem. School administration, although not as bad, is still way over the top.
@G-MAN… 100% agree with that. OT — did you hear about the Chino prison riot here in CA? They tore it up — not anything near New Mexico or Attica, but the place sounds unusable.
I should proof my writing more better.
“I just find it harder and harder to buy into the “public school education is beneficial to everyone” with the rate on return coming out of far too many public school lacking in far too many basic educational skills.”
Eric, just be quiet and fork my salary over. You’re right, of course. But since those taxes come out of your federal and property tax, the best bet is in trying to change the laws concerning illegal aliens attending our schools. The law states that you can’t even ask about US citizenship when a parent signs their kid(s) up at a school. And these kids for the most part are siphoning that money from going to more useful purposes. They ought to also pass a law that kids need to know how to read/spell their names, as well as simple C-V-C words, and count to ten, before they can apply to register at a school. Because enough of those parents who expect us to pay for their kids public education don’t want to waste their time doing what they’re supposed to. Then our tax money will go a lot further (and they’d need less of it), because when they show up in school without knowing how to do those things, they will in most cases always be behind, and keeping them back means we’re paying double for them.
@ Floyd- I didn’t hear about Chino. I’ll check it out later today.
In a conference at Santa Fe, I got a tour through Old Main, where the NM riot was. They never did re-open portions of it. I hung back from the main big-shot group and stuck with a couple of sgts trailing along. They both were working there at the time of the incident. The group got an overview. I got the real deal. (I started as a grunt and never forgot where I came from.) Those sgts were awesome! And what they told me, I’ll never forget.