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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Open Thread</title>
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	<description>These are our principles.  If you don&#039;t like them, we have others...</description>
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		<title>By: Tracy, txmom2many</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43322</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy, txmom2many</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43322</guid>
		<description>I hadn&#039;t thought about it, but yeah.  That&#039;s ok, so have I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t thought about it, but yeah.  That&#8217;s ok, so have I.</p>
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		<title>By: Republibot 3.0</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43305</link>
		<dc:creator>Republibot 3.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43305</guid>
		<description>Undoubtedly there&#039;s some similarities there, particularly the dismissive/disdain thing, but I&#039;m not sure if Book exactly fits that description. There&#039;s something *else* going on with Book on the show, we get just enough clues to know something&#039;s up, but not enough to know what it is. He tends to disappear from the ship at times for days or weeks at a time, which makes me wonder if perhaps he&#039;s not got a sideline or a secret calling. Since the movie it&#039;s been popular to assume he&#039;s an ex-Operative, but I found myself wondering if he might not have been something more like Evangeline, the comic book heroine. 

@ Tracy: I was surprised by how much older and heavier he&#039;s gotten. He really looks a whole lot older than Mal in Castle, doesn&#039;t he?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Undoubtedly there&#8217;s some similarities there, particularly the dismissive/disdain thing, but I&#8217;m not sure if Book exactly fits that description. There&#8217;s something *else* going on with Book on the show, we get just enough clues to know something&#8217;s up, but not enough to know what it is. He tends to disappear from the ship at times for days or weeks at a time, which makes me wonder if perhaps he&#8217;s not got a sideline or a secret calling. Since the movie it&#8217;s been popular to assume he&#8217;s an ex-Operative, but I found myself wondering if he might not have been something more like Evangeline, the comic book heroine. </p>
<p>@ Tracy: I was surprised by how much older and heavier he&#8217;s gotten. He really looks a whole lot older than Mal in Castle, doesn&#8217;t he?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43304</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43304</guid>
		<description>R3, your response to No One in Particular makes me want to examine Shepherd Book in light of Chesterton&#039;s Father Brown. I&#039;m watching the two season&#039;s of Father Brown (the episodes aired in &#039;74 and are available through Netflix), which brings out the source material&#039;s Chestertonian qualities brilliantly. I can see a bit of Father Brown in Shepherd Book, both are unassuming men who see everything around them as a chance to learn and grow in their own faith. Both are very self-effacing, never taking themselves too seriously. Both are capable of great feats when the situation calls for it. Both evangelize in such a way that those to whom they are speaking don&#039;t know what hit them, but they know it is profound. I wonder if Whedon has read Father Brown. Both are surrounded by people who either dismiss the men&#039;s faith or hold it in general disdain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R3, your response to No One in Particular makes me want to examine Shepherd Book in light of Chesterton&#8217;s Father Brown. I&#8217;m watching the two season&#8217;s of Father Brown (the episodes aired in &#8217;74 and are available through Netflix), which brings out the source material&#8217;s Chestertonian qualities brilliantly. I can see a bit of Father Brown in Shepherd Book, both are unassuming men who see everything around them as a chance to learn and grow in their own faith. Both are very self-effacing, never taking themselves too seriously. Both are capable of great feats when the situation calls for it. Both evangelize in such a way that those to whom they are speaking don&#8217;t know what hit them, but they know it is profound. I wonder if Whedon has read Father Brown. Both are surrounded by people who either dismiss the men&#8217;s faith or hold it in general disdain.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy, txmom2many</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43302</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy, txmom2many</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43302</guid>
		<description>We saw the movie, cause I really really REALLY liked Firefly and my sweet husband loves movies so it seemed like we should love it.  I don&#039;t remember it.  Sad, right?

I loved the guy who played Mal so much. I was thrilled when he was going to be in a show that also included dead bodies (one of my personal mottos is &quot;if it&#039;s got a dead body in the first ten minutes, it&#039;s worth watching at least once&quot;, along with &quot; if you are pissing off the same number of people on either side of the debate, you&#039;re either just about right or very very VERY wrong&quot; and &quot;if you can&#039;t be helpful at least be quiet&quot; gets me through life.  I love parentheses).  Castle isn&#039;t great tv but my goodness, that man is &lt;b&gt;adorable&lt;/b&gt; *giggle*.

So R3, don&#039;t know if it&#039;s because it resonates with Texans or not.  I only know *he* resonates with this Texan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We saw the movie, cause I really really REALLY liked Firefly and my sweet husband loves movies so it seemed like we should love it.  I don&#8217;t remember it.  Sad, right?</p>
<p>I loved the guy who played Mal so much. I was thrilled when he was going to be in a show that also included dead bodies (one of my personal mottos is &#8220;if it&#8217;s got a dead body in the first ten minutes, it&#8217;s worth watching at least once&#8221;, along with &#8221; if you are pissing off the same number of people on either side of the debate, you&#8217;re either just about right or very very VERY wrong&#8221; and &#8220;if you can&#8217;t be helpful at least be quiet&#8221; gets me through life.  I love parentheses).  Castle isn&#8217;t great tv but my goodness, that man is <b>adorable</b> *giggle*.</p>
<p>So R3, don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s because it resonates with Texans or not.  I only know *he* resonates with this Texan</p>
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		<title>By: Republibot 3.0</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43301</link>
		<dc:creator>Republibot 3.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43301</guid>
		<description>Kit - well of course I was wrong, but the scene where Belloq was talking to Indy saying &quot;Do you know what the Ark is? It&#039;s a transmitter to God&quot; certainly seemed like they were going down the von Danikin rout. So with the righteous indignation that only 13 year olds and No One In Particular (Who, for all I know is 13 too) can manage, I got up and bolted from the theater rather than submit myself to such blasphemy. I only found out the error of my ways some months later when my youth minister openly laughed at me for being such a dope.

Kenn - &quot;Firefly&quot; is essentially a variation on the theme of &quot;The Killer Angels&quot; - If you&#039;ve never read the book, it&#039;s about what happens to the side that lost the Civil War, people who weren&#039;t villains, many of whom were high-minded idealists, many just fighting for their homes, when their side looses, their culutre is all-but destroyed, they become 3rd class citizens, and can&#039;t or simply won&#039;t fit back in to society. As Texans, that&#039;s got to resonate a bit, right? A little? The more developed central planets are more modern and traditionally SF, and we see some of those, others are more western or more eastern, the ones on the fringes of society tend to be frontiery because they&#039;re poor, on the edge of society, and generally ignored by the central planets until tax time rolls around. I thought it was great fun, myself, but then I like westerns and SF, so in my mind it&#039;s only natural they&#039;d go together like wet and rain. 

Mr. Sideous - I think you&#039;re bang on target. I think he tends to be in love with his own words - which is actually a good quality in a writer - and I think his projects eventually collapse under their own acumulated weight. Firefly is different for several reasons - it&#039;s SF, not Fantasy, and since it&#039;s 500 years in the future and Earth is only slightly better than a legend, there are few-if-any pop culture references beyond the obvious shoutouts to Westerns, the Civil War, and a couple subtle digs at Star Trek. None are particularly overt. And of course the show only produced 13 episodes before it got killed, so there wasn&#039;t time for it&#039;s inherent Whedonism to eat itself. 

It&#039;s a fun little failed series. I can&#039;t whole-heartedly reccomend anything that had so few episodes to actually show, I don&#039;t think we ever get a really solid feel for where the show was going, but I did really enjoy it. &quot;Cancelled&quot; doesn&#039;t always mean &quot;Failed,&quot; it might simply mean the show ran on Fox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kit &#8211; well of course I was wrong, but the scene where Belloq was talking to Indy saying &#8220;Do you know what the Ark is? It&#8217;s a transmitter to God&#8221; certainly seemed like they were going down the von Danikin rout. So with the righteous indignation that only 13 year olds and No One In Particular (Who, for all I know is 13 too) can manage, I got up and bolted from the theater rather than submit myself to such blasphemy. I only found out the error of my ways some months later when my youth minister openly laughed at me for being such a dope.</p>
<p>Kenn &#8211; &#8220;Firefly&#8221; is essentially a variation on the theme of &#8220;The Killer Angels&#8221; &#8211; If you&#8217;ve never read the book, it&#8217;s about what happens to the side that lost the Civil War, people who weren&#8217;t villains, many of whom were high-minded idealists, many just fighting for their homes, when their side looses, their culutre is all-but destroyed, they become 3rd class citizens, and can&#8217;t or simply won&#8217;t fit back in to society. As Texans, that&#8217;s got to resonate a bit, right? A little? The more developed central planets are more modern and traditionally SF, and we see some of those, others are more western or more eastern, the ones on the fringes of society tend to be frontiery because they&#8217;re poor, on the edge of society, and generally ignored by the central planets until tax time rolls around. I thought it was great fun, myself, but then I like westerns and SF, so in my mind it&#8217;s only natural they&#8217;d go together like wet and rain. </p>
<p>Mr. Sideous &#8211; I think you&#8217;re bang on target. I think he tends to be in love with his own words &#8211; which is actually a good quality in a writer &#8211; and I think his projects eventually collapse under their own acumulated weight. Firefly is different for several reasons &#8211; it&#8217;s SF, not Fantasy, and since it&#8217;s 500 years in the future and Earth is only slightly better than a legend, there are few-if-any pop culture references beyond the obvious shoutouts to Westerns, the Civil War, and a couple subtle digs at Star Trek. None are particularly overt. And of course the show only produced 13 episodes before it got killed, so there wasn&#8217;t time for it&#8217;s inherent Whedonism to eat itself. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a fun little failed series. I can&#8217;t whole-heartedly reccomend anything that had so few episodes to actually show, I don&#8217;t think we ever get a really solid feel for where the show was going, but I did really enjoy it. &#8220;Cancelled&#8221; doesn&#8217;t always mean &#8220;Failed,&#8221; it might simply mean the show ran on Fox.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Sideous</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43297</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Sideous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43297</guid>
		<description>I like Whedon a lot (First three seasons of Buffy are gold) but he has the unfortunate tendency to be too self referential. It tends to stop the story cold with the &quot;lookit the strange pop culture reference I just came up with&quot; aspect. It&#039;s writer falling in love with his own words. Couldn&#039;t get into &quot;Angel&quot;, same with &quot;Firefly&quot;. Friends tell me I&#039;m wrong, perhaps I&#039;ll give it another try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Whedon a lot (First three seasons of Buffy are gold) but he has the unfortunate tendency to be too self referential. It tends to stop the story cold with the &#8220;lookit the strange pop culture reference I just came up with&#8221; aspect. It&#8217;s writer falling in love with his own words. Couldn&#8217;t get into &#8220;Angel&#8221;, same with &#8220;Firefly&#8221;. Friends tell me I&#8217;m wrong, perhaps I&#8217;ll give it another try.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenn Christenson</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43296</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenn Christenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43296</guid>
		<description>Saw the series&#039; first episode - just couldn&#039;t get past the Western/Sci-Fi mix.  Kind of the cinematic equivalent of a mixed metaphor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saw the series&#8217; first episode &#8211; just couldn&#8217;t get past the Western/Sci-Fi mix.  Kind of the cinematic equivalent of a mixed metaphor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kit</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43295</link>
		<dc:creator>Kit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43295</guid>
		<description>The Ark used to talk to aliens?!?! 

Wrong Indy film, bud!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Ark used to talk to aliens?!?! </p>
<p>Wrong Indy film, bud!</p>
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		<title>By: Republibot 3.0</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43294</link>
		<dc:creator>Republibot 3.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43294</guid>
		<description>@ Daniel - I felt the movie was a bit of a disappointment. I&#039;m not sure I felt they tried to do too much, but I never, for a moment, believed that the reason they gave for River in it was the reason they had in mind when the show started. But really what bothered me about the movie was that that Mal was much darker and less the happy-go-lucky crazy person that he was in the series. Without Mal being the engagingly odd male lead - and we only get a few glimmers of that in the film - then that whole crew really doesn&#039;t work for me. Also, I didn&#039;t think it was wild west-y enough. It was like they were suddenly kind of ashamed of their cowboy roots. 

@ No One In Particular - I&#039;m the guy who walked out of Raiders of the Lost Ark the first time because I thought they were trying to say the Ark was some kind of hokey Eric Von Danikin radio transmitter to aliens, so I know where you&#039;re coming from, and I also know how easy it is to be wrong when you make those kinds of snap decisions. (For instance, they were NOT saying that bout the Ark in Raiders). That said, I&#039;ve watched every episode of Firefly umpteen times, and can honestly say none of them match your description. I can also say that your objections to a &quot;Preist with a past&quot; are shortsighted. The &quot;Whiskey Priest&quot; is a longstanding tradition of western movies and books and the west itself, and though Shepherd Book very clearly has some sordid details in his past, it is also just as obviously clear that he devoted himself to God as a result of guilt over that past, and that he is - now - a very good man who&#039;s found the strength through Christ to rebuild himself and help others. It&#039;s very obvious that when Book says things about God in the series, he honestly means them, and I consider him to be one of the best portrayals of a traditionally religious man in SF and on TV, period, end of sentence. 
As to him going to a prostitute for guidance, he&#039;s made it clear that he doesn&#039;t approve of her job, but she *is* the only other &#039;educated&#039; person on the boat, and she does have some religious training (Buddhist), so it&#039;s only fitting they&#039;d have at least a little bit in common. 
I think you&#039;re way off base there, Mr. No One In Particular, if in fact that is your real name. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Daniel &#8211; I felt the movie was a bit of a disappointment. I&#8217;m not sure I felt they tried to do too much, but I never, for a moment, believed that the reason they gave for River in it was the reason they had in mind when the show started. But really what bothered me about the movie was that that Mal was much darker and less the happy-go-lucky crazy person that he was in the series. Without Mal being the engagingly odd male lead &#8211; and we only get a few glimmers of that in the film &#8211; then that whole crew really doesn&#8217;t work for me. Also, I didn&#8217;t think it was wild west-y enough. It was like they were suddenly kind of ashamed of their cowboy roots. </p>
<p>@ No One In Particular &#8211; I&#8217;m the guy who walked out of Raiders of the Lost Ark the first time because I thought they were trying to say the Ark was some kind of hokey Eric Von Danikin radio transmitter to aliens, so I know where you&#8217;re coming from, and I also know how easy it is to be wrong when you make those kinds of snap decisions. (For instance, they were NOT saying that bout the Ark in Raiders). That said, I&#8217;ve watched every episode of Firefly umpteen times, and can honestly say none of them match your description. I can also say that your objections to a &#8220;Preist with a past&#8221; are shortsighted. The &#8220;Whiskey Priest&#8221; is a longstanding tradition of western movies and books and the west itself, and though Shepherd Book very clearly has some sordid details in his past, it is also just as obviously clear that he devoted himself to God as a result of guilt over that past, and that he is &#8211; now &#8211; a very good man who&#8217;s found the strength through Christ to rebuild himself and help others. It&#8217;s very obvious that when Book says things about God in the series, he honestly means them, and I consider him to be one of the best portrayals of a traditionally religious man in SF and on TV, period, end of sentence.<br />
As to him going to a prostitute for guidance, he&#8217;s made it clear that he doesn&#8217;t approve of her job, but she *is* the only other &#8216;educated&#8217; person on the boat, and she does have some religious training (Buddhist), so it&#8217;s only fitting they&#8217;d have at least a little bit in common.<br />
I think you&#8217;re way off base there, Mr. No One In Particular, if in fact that is your real name.</p>
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		<title>By: No one in particular</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/11531/comment-page-1#comment-43292</link>
		<dc:creator>No one in particular</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=11531#comment-43292</guid>
		<description>I stopped watching Serenity when they went to the &quot;planet of the looney wild west evangelical Christians&quot; - aka Christian bashing plot #1a. The first warning was the &quot;priest with a past&quot; guy going to the prostitute lady for moral guidance. Two slaps across the face is as many as I&#039;m allowing media these days before I cut it off, even if it has a libertarian POV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stopped watching Serenity when they went to the &#8220;planet of the looney wild west evangelical Christians&#8221; &#8211; aka Christian bashing plot #1a. The first warning was the &#8220;priest with a past&#8221; guy going to the prostitute lady for moral guidance. Two slaps across the face is as many as I&#8217;m allowing media these days before I cut it off, even if it has a libertarian POV.</p>
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