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	<title>Comments on: When All You Have Is A Hammer, Everything Begins to Look Like a Nail.</title>
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	<description>These are our principles.  If you don&#039;t like them, we have others...</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50211</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50211</guid>
		<description>I have no problem with anything either Rufus or Floyd said above.  As I said in the eariler post, I think any apparent disagreement between us is a misunderstanding on somebody&#039;s part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with anything either Rufus or Floyd said above.  As I said in the eariler post, I think any apparent disagreement between us is a misunderstanding on somebody&#8217;s part.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50124</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50124</guid>
		<description>If one of my children or Mrs. Firefly are ill or injured and need immediate attention I will break every moving violation in my county, state and country to get them to an emergency room.  Should citizens do that?  No.  Should I be slapped on the wrist and reminded not to do that after the dust settles?  Yes.  Should a judge take into account I was driving a severely injured loved one to the hospital, as opposed to drag racing with my teen-aged buddies?  Yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one of my children or Mrs. Firefly are ill or injured and need immediate attention I will break every moving violation in my county, state and country to get them to an emergency room.  Should citizens do that?  No.  Should I be slapped on the wrist and reminded not to do that after the dust settles?  Yes.  Should a judge take into account I was driving a severely injured loved one to the hospital, as opposed to drag racing with my teen-aged buddies?  Yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50122</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50122</guid>
		<description>This is why we have judges, to take this stuff into account.  Otherwise we just need a computer that has all the statutes in a database.  About a decade ago there was a case where a child molester had abused a woman&#039;s son.  She was a stable, contributing member of society with no criminal record.  She snuck a gun into the courtroom and when the bastard was found guilty she shot him.  I believe she did not serve any jail time for her crime.

No, we don&#039;t want citizens bringing weapons into court rooms and imposing their own sentencing, but I believe it was fair to not imprison this woman for her &quot;crime.&quot;  The man was guilty.  He had destroyed her son&#039;s life.  She behaved rationally.  She is no threat to society and the judge sentenced her accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why we have judges, to take this stuff into account.  Otherwise we just need a computer that has all the statutes in a database.  About a decade ago there was a case where a child molester had abused a woman&#8217;s son.  She was a stable, contributing member of society with no criminal record.  She snuck a gun into the courtroom and when the bastard was found guilty she shot him.  I believe she did not serve any jail time for her crime.</p>
<p>No, we don&#8217;t want citizens bringing weapons into court rooms and imposing their own sentencing, but I believe it was fair to not imprison this woman for her &#8220;crime.&#8221;  The man was guilty.  He had destroyed her son&#8217;s life.  She behaved rationally.  She is no threat to society and the judge sentenced her accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50113</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50113</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s necessarily black and white.  Most prosecutors use discretion properly.  One of the main problems is overly broad statutes.   Prosecutors have very broad discretion -- no one -- generally can force a prosecutor (the elected DA rather) to bring a charge or seek a punishment except the voters.  

New Yorkers may like their gun laws -- that is their prerogative of course.  I just wish they wouldn&#039;t and I would argue that they should keep the law, but change the sentencing policy.  I exercise my vote by not living there or wanting to -- sort of like Rush (his protest move out of NYC in response to a tax hike).  That&#039;s minor of course, but it&#039;s all I&#039;ve got.  :-)

I wouldn&#039;t assume most people would understand (legislators included) understand the possible consequences -- like the Grandma busted for buying cold medicine twice in 7 days (in my last link).  They don&#039;t see themselves as criminals and so don&#039;t always follow those statutes.  The lack of knowledge of what a statute will do when used is another argument for a legislature to hold back perhaps -- get involved in a few areas, and draw narrowly tailored laws.  Better to err on a few going free than to wrongly imprison or criminalize otherwise good people.  Prosecutorial and judicial discretion are republican checks on democracy.  When the ability to use them is lost either due to sentencing guidelines, lack of ethical and moral training in law schools or whatever we become less free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessarily black and white.  Most prosecutors use discretion properly.  One of the main problems is overly broad statutes.   Prosecutors have very broad discretion &#8212; no one &#8212; generally can force a prosecutor (the elected DA rather) to bring a charge or seek a punishment except the voters.  </p>
<p>New Yorkers may like their gun laws &#8212; that is their prerogative of course.  I just wish they wouldn&#8217;t and I would argue that they should keep the law, but change the sentencing policy.  I exercise my vote by not living there or wanting to &#8212; sort of like Rush (his protest move out of NYC in response to a tax hike).  That&#8217;s minor of course, but it&#8217;s all I&#8217;ve got.  <img src='http://www.threedonia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t assume most people would understand (legislators included) understand the possible consequences &#8212; like the Grandma busted for buying cold medicine twice in 7 days (in my last link).  They don&#8217;t see themselves as criminals and so don&#8217;t always follow those statutes.  The lack of knowledge of what a statute will do when used is another argument for a legislature to hold back perhaps &#8212; get involved in a few areas, and draw narrowly tailored laws.  Better to err on a few going free than to wrongly imprison or criminalize otherwise good people.  Prosecutorial and judicial discretion are republican checks on democracy.  When the ability to use them is lost either due to sentencing guidelines, lack of ethical and moral training in law schools or whatever we become less free.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50106</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50106</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of this, but if the people of New York like their gun laws, what do you suggest be done?  I don&#039;t like prison sentences for drug addicts, but if I were a prosecutor, would I have the right to refuse to prosecute cases where a guilty verdict would result in prison time?  Wouldn&#039;t I have a duty to either enforce the laws that the people have enacted, or if my conscience demands it, resign and allow someone else to do it?

Prosecutorial discretion can always be abused, and not always in the overzealous direction.  I don&#039;t think this issue is as black and white as you&#039;ve argued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of this, but if the people of New York like their gun laws, what do you suggest be done?  I don&#8217;t like prison sentences for drug addicts, but if I were a prosecutor, would I have the right to refuse to prosecute cases where a guilty verdict would result in prison time?  Wouldn&#8217;t I have a duty to either enforce the laws that the people have enacted, or if my conscience demands it, resign and allow someone else to do it?</p>
<p>Prosecutorial discretion can always be abused, and not always in the overzealous direction.  I don&#8217;t think this issue is as black and white as you&#8217;ve argued.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50103</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50103</guid>
		<description>Mike... I find it distressing not because I think those folks don&#039;t really care for individuals (and as such I apologize for the gross and unfair overstatement because I know y&#039;all do -- sincerely not my intention) but they often support prosecution and sentencing policies that in fact do just that -- destroy individuals in favor of &quot;public safety&quot; or lower crime rates, etc.   

My main gripe with the Burress situation (presuming his guilt and his idiocy) I would like to know why -- morally -- he deserves 2 years of prison and 2 years of probation when he has no priors I&#039;m aware of, shot himself and will lose 4 years of his limited career range (given that his chosen profession does not allow for traditional career trajectories that consequence is greater than most jobs) over say just probation and a huge fine and a limit on his gun rights.  Do we need a pound of flesh too?  Just because &quot;it&#039;s the law&quot; doesn&#039;t make it right -- or wrong -- for that matter.

I am pro-prosecution pro-cop, etc.  I have worked for and with law enforcement for 15 years.  The answer to the Great Society&#039;s permissiveness via unalloyed acceptance of 1950/60s sociology and psychology is not a complete hard core &quot;let&#039;s arrest everybody&quot; approach.  Many conservatives (myself included) have focused so much on &quot;locking people up&quot; that we are in very real danger of creating a society where we are afraid of our government because they can now lock up the majority of people whenever some prosecutor feels like it based on our labyrinthine laws.

So while I understand completely the inclination I&#039;m distressed that some conservatives are tempted to say &quot;F*&amp;k Plaxico&quot; when he&#039;s merely an example of a deeper problem... Scooter Libby, Martha Stewart, (see the link I posted)  When the rich are in danger -- how much more are the rest of us?  Part of the law is of course deterrence and making examples, but when the end becomes example of government power and the means are individuals -- we&#039;ve gone too far.

And we haven&#039;t reached tipping point necessarily, but the examples of abuse are growing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike&#8230; I find it distressing not because I think those folks don&#8217;t really care for individuals (and as such I apologize for the gross and unfair overstatement because I know y&#8217;all do &#8212; sincerely not my intention) but they often support prosecution and sentencing policies that in fact do just that &#8212; destroy individuals in favor of &#8220;public safety&#8221; or lower crime rates, etc.   </p>
<p>My main gripe with the Burress situation (presuming his guilt and his idiocy) I would like to know why &#8212; morally &#8212; he deserves 2 years of prison and 2 years of probation when he has no priors I&#8217;m aware of, shot himself and will lose 4 years of his limited career range (given that his chosen profession does not allow for traditional career trajectories that consequence is greater than most jobs) over say just probation and a huge fine and a limit on his gun rights.  Do we need a pound of flesh too?  Just because &#8220;it&#8217;s the law&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make it right &#8212; or wrong &#8212; for that matter.</p>
<p>I am pro-prosecution pro-cop, etc.  I have worked for and with law enforcement for 15 years.  The answer to the Great Society&#8217;s permissiveness via unalloyed acceptance of 1950/60s sociology and psychology is not a complete hard core &#8220;let&#8217;s arrest everybody&#8221; approach.  Many conservatives (myself included) have focused so much on &#8220;locking people up&#8221; that we are in very real danger of creating a society where we are afraid of our government because they can now lock up the majority of people whenever some prosecutor feels like it based on our labyrinthine laws.</p>
<p>So while I understand completely the inclination I&#8217;m distressed that some conservatives are tempted to say &#8220;F*&amp;k Plaxico&#8221; when he&#8217;s merely an example of a deeper problem&#8230; Scooter Libby, Martha Stewart, (see the link I posted)  When the rich are in danger &#8212; how much more are the rest of us?  Part of the law is of course deterrence and making examples, but when the end becomes example of government power and the means are individuals &#8212; we&#8217;ve gone too far.</p>
<p>And we haven&#8217;t reached tipping point necessarily, but the examples of abuse are growing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50097</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50097</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...a disdain for individuals I find disconcerting in anyone and near distressing in those proclaiming to be conservative.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I shudder to think what you would have said if you hadn&#039;t given us the benefit of the doubt!

I actually had that WSJ article bookmarked to post about before real life* intruded upon my plans a few days ago.  I agree with you, and since---in this post---you haven&#039;t implied that it is a greater injustice for rich people to be unfairly imprisoned than it is for poor people, I&#039;ll leave it at that.

-----------------------
*A nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable thing.  Makes you late for dinner!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;a disdain for individuals I find disconcerting in anyone and near distressing in those proclaiming to be conservative.</p></blockquote>
<p>I shudder to think what you would have said if you hadn&#8217;t given us the benefit of the doubt!</p>
<p>I actually had that WSJ article bookmarked to post about before real life* intruded upon my plans a few days ago.  I agree with you, and since&#8212;in this post&#8212;you haven&#8217;t implied that it is a greater injustice for rich people to be unfairly imprisoned than it is for poor people, I&#8217;ll leave it at that.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
*A nasty, disturbing, uncomfortable thing.  Makes you late for dinner!</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50084</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50084</guid>
		<description>Too many lawyers is one of the problems to be sure.  Too much student debt and too many people who think the law is a slot machine or their way to be righteous.  And lest we ever lapse into rancor -- let&#039;s not forget the Cowboys game last night.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many lawyers is one of the problems to be sure.  Too much student debt and too many people who think the law is a slot machine or their way to be righteous.  And lest we ever lapse into rancor &#8212; let&#8217;s not forget the Cowboys game last night.  <img src='http://www.threedonia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Scott M.</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50081</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50081</guid>
		<description>Q:What do you call a 100,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?..A:A good start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q:What do you call a 100,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?..A:A good start.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/13801/comment-page-1#comment-50075</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=13801#comment-50075</guid>
		<description>Scott... That&#039;s not a very strong argument.  Under that logic anybody helping a Jew in WW2 Germany is a criminal or could be used to outlaw all sorts of gov&#039;t disapproved behaviors. They knew the law and broke it.  The law itself is unjust and/or the application.  Stop focusing on Burress and argue the principle.  Read the other link. .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott&#8230; That&#8217;s not a very strong argument.  Under that logic anybody helping a Jew in WW2 Germany is a criminal or could be used to outlaw all sorts of gov&#8217;t disapproved behaviors. They knew the law and broke it.  The law itself is unjust and/or the application.  Stop focusing on Burress and argue the principle.  Read the other link. .</p>
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