I can’t believe you wrote that. What would make you think a medium designed for communication in staccato is not designed to probe the depths of our human existence. To paraphrase… “We ought to seek in Threedonia ghostly profit rather than curiosity of style.”

Trust me — the profits around here are ghostly.

h/t: Thomas a Kempis

I’d hate to accuse someone of Pelagianism when he was actually an Arian, ’cause then he’d be all like, “What are you talking about? I believe in original sin!” And I’d be like, “Well I know you said something fishy, though.” And then I might have to let him go on a technicality.

I never thought of it, but what you write about Catholicism having everything is true. The one thing we have that none of the other Christian faiths (except for the Orthodox, like Father Ron) can copy is the ancient aspect. Nobody is going to write a Dan Brown novel on the United Church of Christ. There are no ancient mysteries. It’s all guitar mass.

You make a good point regarding some of the nuanced arguments but that’s one of the aspects I enjoy: it’s like pie on the window – there when I want it. It’s fun to get deeper into it with the nomenclature, Pope Whoosis II and Pope Whatsis IV, etc. but one doesn’t have to. It’s optional. A priest said to me once that Catholicism has everything: you want people who wear robes and light candles, we’ve got that. Want incense and ritual? We’ve got that. If you want the basics, Jesus and the Mystery of Faith we’ve got that too. It can be as rich or as simple as one wishes. There are those who get a little too wrapped up in if it’s important to hold hands or not to hold hands or shaking hands at the sign of peace. It’s important to be reverent but not get too caught up in the rubrics. Each day I think of the Pharisees and try to keep in mind what is truly important. I have my fundamentalist friends who keep me in line.

I struggled with my last reply to R3. I don’t think this forum is the place to answer all of the questions he might have – even if I could. I want him to know that not all Catholics are like Nancy Pelosi or the Kennedy clan. I thought he might at least enjoy some of the conservative viewpoints of Elizabeth Scalia or use the online encyclopedia to answer a few questions.

I must admit I’m stumped by most of my kids’ religion homework. There are all these specific terms in Catholicism. Encyclicals, epistals, ecumenicals… I don’t even know the names of all the articles of clothing my kids don when they are altar servers. But they do.

This is all a way of saying, I’m not sure if you’ll get a lot out of those websites, Republibot 3.0. I am decent at trivia and often get asked by friends to be on their trivia teams at various Catholic churches. I’m almost always the only public school kid in the room and when the category is religion I don’t understand most of what’s being asked or answered. There is a specific language to Catholicism that is hard to pick up on if you are not raised with it. I do know some adult converts who get it, but they really threw themselves into it. Personally I find a lot of it arbitrary, so I’ve never bothered, but I know Catholics who can debate for hours on the nuances of whether a Pope was speaking ex cathedra when he made a statement, and whether it holds the same import of something some other Pope said… To me, once you get beyond the Gospels it’s all men speaking as men, but Catholics get really wrapped up in protocol and heirarchy and terminology and ritual.

You mentioned not knowing what I meant by liturgy so let me give you a brief definition from the Catholic Encyclopedia: “On the one hand, liturgy often means the whole complex of official services, all the rites, ceremonies, prayers, and sacraments of the Church, as opposed to private devotions. In this sense we speak of the arrangement of all these services in certain set forms (including the canonical hours, administration of sacraments, etc.), used officially by any local church, as the liturgy of such a church — the Liturgy of Antioch, the Roman Liturgy, and so on. So liturgy means rite…The other sense of the word liturgy, now the common one in all Eastern Churches, restricts it to the chief official service only — the Sacrifice of the Holy Eucharist, which in our rite we call the Mass.”

American Catholics tend to be poor at evangelizing. I didn’t realize that you were looking for answers – I truly thought you were just trying to be argumentative. Believe me I’ve been involved in and seen a lot of debates that unfolded just like this thread. I didn’t want to get into a situation of constantly being on the defensive on matters that are deeply personal to each of us.

I would be remiss if I missed an opportunity to suggest a few websites for you to check out if you’re interested. A great source for answers is http://www.catholic.com/

If you’re interested in hearing one of the great apologists I recommend Bishop Fulton Sheen. This site has quality (and free) MP3s:
http://www.americancatholictruthsociety.com/articles/sheen.htm

There are some very, very good blogs out there. This one is one of my favorites since the author is very conservative politically:
http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/theanchoress/
Another site with a conservative perspective:
http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/

Other blogs I frequent:
http://frmartinfox.blogspot.com/
http://yimcatholic.blogspot.com/
http://mcitl.blogspot.com/

Finally I encourage you to read the works of Pope Benedict XVI. He has an amazing intellect and is a great teacher. His latest official letter, Charity in Truth ,or Caritas in Veritate, is profound.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0893.htm

I’m just getting caught up on the weekend comments, so somebody may have already replied. I was raised by an Eastern European Catholic mother and an athiest father. Mom made me attend Mass and get the sacraments, Dad mocked her for doing so, and mocked me for attending. So, I’ve got the perspective of an insider, raised in the faith, but with a skeptic’s eye toward all that was going on within. After the requisite shunning of religion as a late teen and flirtation with other faiths I have been back in the Catholic fold for a few decades, and am quite happy with where I am.

I think the oddest thing for those on the outside looking in (especially Protestants/Baptists) is the tradition and mysticism. The silly hats and robes, the statues, the iconography, the symbology, the ritual kneeling/standing/sitting/bowing, signs of the cross, gesticulations, genuflections, littanies of saints. Catholicism is steeped in 2,000 years of history and it’s picked up a lot of baggage in that time. Do I think God, Jesus, Mary or Joseph really care if one buries a tiny statue of Joseph upside down in the front yard when hoping to sell her home? No. Is there a home sold in my old neighborhood in Chicago without that ritual occurring? No.

Catholicism is rife with pageantry and mysticism. We are like the Free Masons of Christianity. Most of us don’t even know why any of these things are done. Some of us think about them a great deal, and of those of us who think about them some of us like the pomp and circumstance and some of us do not. As I age I see that the ritual and tradition can do a lot to draw people to Christianity and keep them in the fold. “I am the way.” Well, what is THE way? It probably varies for each and evey individual who is saved, but, at the basis of Catholicism is a ritualistic path that centuries (millenia!) of experience have shown often works to bring people to the Savior.

Hence the debates over things like guitar masses vs. Gregorian chants.