One sliver of great news… the Stupak Amendment exempting abortion from the bill passed with 64 Dems — 240 total. That’s a good majority of relatively pro-life Congress members. We’ll see if that survives in committee if the Senate passes a version.
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Health Care Vote Thread37 comments to Health Care Vote Thread |
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Stupak Amendment passes with 240 Yea… it bars federal funding of abortions. John Shadegg (Rep.) votes “Present”. Coward.
Shadegg saw that bullshit amendment for what it really was — a transparent attempt to shelter the Blue Dogs. Since they voted that amendment in, they felt comfortable passing the rest of the bill — and when it comes back for the House’s final imprimatur, after the Senate tears the guts out of the anti-abortion provisions, the Blue Dogs can vote for it again and go “Who, me?” if the issue ever comes up.
Boehner Substitute bill is up — set up on the tee to fail, but important to get all this on the record nonetheless. Called to account….
I was hoping at least one or two Blue-dog Dems would protest vote for Boehner’s bill…. Reminder that the defeat of Pelosi-care is not the end of the war — it’s one battle — a big battle, but they’ll try again and the blue Dogs will vote for it — and some weenie Repubs will vote for it.
Defeated 258-176.
Floyd…not on point, but why does your “post” clock say you are an hour later than I when we’re both Pacific standard?
My replies are showing up as 8:20 ish, when it’s onlt 7:30 ish.
and now I’m reading Fritz at 8:35 when it’s 8:05…we have a time space continuum problem…which, considering the site, is probably not surprising.
Seems the Dems are taking Spiked!’s Ethan’s advice to Zach and applying it to themselves.
One Repub for La. voted for it. There will be political blood in 2010.
It passed.
Any good news tonight?
Tomorrow is my birthday.
About the only good news I can think of is that the sun will come up in the morning.
Happy Birthday, Kit!!! Remember the one that’s the oldest has more birthdays!
It has to go through the Senate. Doesn’t it then have to go through both houses again in order to have the same bill?
It’s also supposed to go through a committee to make sure that it will pass Constitutional muster, but apparently that committee is made up of monkeys, since everything they are doing on the Hill these days is unconstitutional!
Is this kind of a weather balloon – to test the resolve of their opponents?
If so, then the storm to follow will define what the pols will move on.
It has to go through the Senate, where it will most likely die. There are around 20 Blue Dogs in the Senate.
It’ll only die if Dingy Harry doesn’t go suicide-bomber on us and unleash the nuclear option.
There are political repercussions to reconciliation that scare the Dems and have not lead them to pull that trigger yet. Barring that, we still have Supreme Court (the National Recovery Act was struck down during the Great Depression) and possibly state nullification. If the SC fails, it will be interesting if various states, including Texas, follow through on threats they’ve made. Such a revolt might just be what we need.
I can see it now, “President, Obama, the people are revolting.” Obama: “Yes, they sure are”…or however that joke goes.
David, I sincerely hope that if there is a constitutional challenge, and there surely will be, that we have enough supreme court judges who will defend the constitution.
Regardless, let us not be downhearted. Be not afraid and keep fighting.
Floyd,that Republican was the Vietnamese American from New Orleans who defeated William “the Fridge ” Jefferson last year…he was voting the will of his constituants.
Why is it that when a GOP squish joins the other side, it’s “he was voting the will of his constituants”, but when the Dems like the Blue Puppies go against their constituents, they are “voting for higher principles than politics as usual”? Whenever one of these important bills comes up, there’s always some leading Stupid Party member willing to sell out and give aid and comfort to the Dems. It is so tiresome.
Happy Birthday,Kit…hope Bama beats the stew out of Gators come December
I’d be shocked if there weren’t Constitutional challenges. I know at least with the TN State Constitution you could make a solid argument that the provision forcing insurance carriers to accept and provide service to people regardless of pre-exisiting condition would be a violation of section 21 which states:
That no man’s particular services shall be demanded, or property
taken, or applied to public use, without the consent of his representatives, or
without just compensation being made therefore.
This is one of the parts of the bill that no one is talking about but from an industry standpoint it is probably the most damaging.
I’d be shocked if there were. I’ve heard Hugh Hewitt, a lawyer, instructor of constitutional law & radio personality blithely dismiss any constitutional challenge as pointless under the Commerce Clause, which has apparently rendered 10th Amendment null and void, and which empowers the federal gov’t to do any damned thing it wants.
If the Commerce Clause is now understood to give the federal gov’t authority to force individuals to buy health insurance or go to jail then there is nothing it can’t do and … yes, I’m going to use that phrase … states’ rights do not exist.
In the middle of the night when most people are asleep, in the middle of the weekend when working folks are relaxing and want only to spend some time with family, federal legislators in the House of Representatives pass a bill that would eventually nationalization American health care. It is what the Left has been demanding for years. Moreover, I believe that any kind of health care insurance reform passed and signed into law by the federal gov’t will be the proverbial camel’s nose. There simply is no stopping this freight train.
I read this essay, “Localism with Teeth,” posted up at Front Porch Republic, and I think it is one of the most dispassionate, clear and well-reasoned arguments for the topic it address. Here are a few thought provoking tidbits concerning a very challenging topic:
“All talk of local autonomy, all calls for devolution of power from a central government, must in the end be calls for the rights of states to oppose and if necessary nullify federal overreaching. Otherwise those calls are just hot air. That is because politics is first and last about power, not highway beautification or universal health coverage. Anyone who has tried to argue with representatives of a federal agency—with, say, the U.S. Forest Service about the illogic of cutting down the woods the agency exists to manage—should know that earnest requests for an obvious good can have little effect on a large bureaucracy which exists to protect not woodlands but itself. The people who work for the Forest Service will follow a logic in making their decisions, but it will be the logic of their budget, not of the forest or the forest’s neighbors or the Indiana bat.
“Of course we all want power to give way to what is right, and sometimes it does. But even in better times than ours, right argument generally gets further when backed by a power of its own, especially when there is a great distance between the Affected and the Decider. If there is going to be any naysaying to Washington, it must come from entities large enough to have the clout to say no. Since even our biggest cities are legally subsidiary to states, and since our federal government was created by the states, opposition should come from the states—or from some confederation thereof.
“Does this sound like rebels’ talk from 1860? Perhaps New Englanders will be comforted by the reminder that Massachusetts was the first state seriously to discuss secession, a half-century before the war, and that John C. Calhoun learned the doctrine of nullification while at college in Connecticut. Unionists can take heart that two of the men most closely associated with secession—Calhoun and Robert E. Lee—both hated it. They were driven to it by the necessity of opposing power with power.”
V-
Have you been able to read through that haven of health care lobyists….I mean health care bill?
I received an email a few days ago outlining some of the hazards of just the first 500 pages. If true, it’s a nightmare.
I’ve been attempting to read through as much of it as I can but it’s tough treading just because of it’s sheer size. So far the strangest part is the idea of “acceptable coverage” wherein big brother will tell us what they deem to be “acceptable” and if are insurance coverage falls below that line we will be penalized through, what else, taxes. There is no set in stone definition of acceptable coverage in the bill which means they can change it on a whim. The most troubling part of this though is it will likely kill all catastrophic coverage policies which are low premium high deductible policies people use to protect themselves in case of an emergency. By killing the catastrophic coverage policies small businesses, self employed, and the self insured will be misproportionately affected as this is generally their coverage because of it’s low cost. This will leave them with two options; pay higher premiums they may not be able to afford or roll to the government carrier.
So much of this bill is designed to force people to the government carrier through coercion or financial penalty. There is nothing resembling free market competition in this thing.
I was curious to see if this is what you found. It sounds at least some of what you’ve described is in there:
Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens.
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected”
Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs
Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
G-Man, first, thanks for posting this. Spreading it far and wide, but some folks rightfully asking for source backup. Can you please provide?
I have no verification. It was forwarded in an email, but since V was doing some research, I thought it may help. I haven’t had the time to download the “bill” and check it myself.
As you know, the bill is 2,000 pages. While it is true, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover, it’s also true you don’t have to stick your nose up a skunk’s ass to tell if it’s a skunk.
That will actually help me. I’ve been needing some sort of a guide to send me to “troubling areas” of the bill. I’ll go to the referenced page and see if that is accurate.
Well what we need is the Senate to just say no. Lieberman God love him has said he’d help the GOP filibuster the bill. We need to work on others like Bayh etc. If they can quietly usher Crap and Tax into a corner they can do this with this piece of filth. Now, if I were John Roberts I’d send a letter to Nasi Pelosi and her flying monkeys and tell her….um….um…um….we here at SCOTUS are going to review this bill and if its Unconstitutional it will be struck down…thought you’d like to know…..I’d already have my over worked clerks doing the tear it apart job.
Hmmmm maybe this artical from Hotair needs its own post…..
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/08/is-this-the-high-water-mark-for-obamacare/
Let not your hearts be troubled…the Senate can kill this thing, slowly, and with plodding self assurance…
Anyone see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc
An excellent summary of what the Dems are forcing on us.
G-MAN – way to go with that list!
I hope the Tea Party guys go Crazy over this.
hey G-Man and Veruckt:
Don’t bother with that forwarded email. Conservative rhetoric debunked:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/
Thanks Venetianphoenix, but looking over the website, I’m not convinced. I’ve downloaded the “bill” and will go through it myself. I’ve briefly checked it out, and the politifact check announced the page 22 claim as false. Correctly, the bill does specify a survey, but it doesn’t rule out an audit. And the way beaurocracies are run, at the whim of the beaurocrat, it’s often what the bill does NOT say is the pitfall.
Page 30 which mandates the “Health Benefits Advisory Committee” AKA death panel, is stacked heavily by the president and one of his appointees. Also, the membership makeup is bizarre. For example, the one doctor allowed on the panel has no more influence than say a consumer or labor official (also on the panel). It’s basically a collection of special interests, and the “at least one practicing physician or other health professional” will as a result, not have much input. These are the people who will define the standards. Good God!!!
I’ll spend the next few days going through this thing, but like I stated above, I really don’t have to stick my nose up a skunk’s ass to tell it’s a skunk.