Okay can we officially quit dancing around it and just call the Fort Hood shooting a terrorist attack? This asshat did everything short of get in one of those mall photo booths with Bin Laden.
We can, but our Lords and Masters never will. The general made it clear–losing some people is a misfortune, but losing “diversity” would be a calamity.
Rufus, now I’ve got that song in my head. Hard to believe it’s been so long since the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. Thanks for the reminder. The skies of November here in Ohio are indeed gloomy today.
Veruckt, you’re too right. The dude is a terrorist.
Lars, I’d hate to hear Casey’s lamentations over the loss of our precious diversity in the Army. That would be the real tragedy.
It’s a cool song. I’m always astounded that the ship was almost 200 feet longer than the depth of Lake Superior at the point it sank. If it had sunk standing up 200 feet (2/3 of a football field!) of it would have been sticking straight up in the air!
I didn’t realize the lake was that shallow in that area.
Have you seen any of the programs on TLC/Discovery/and or History Channel that discuss the more bizarre theories of the sinking of the EF? I seem to recall one theory involved aliens. I could be imagining that but I’ll go with it anyway because it’s just that kind of a day. Up is down and terrorists are victims so why not have men from Mars come for the Edmund Fitzgerald?
I have not seen anything on those channels about the Edmund Fitzgerald, but I’d be drawn right in if I did. I love that kind of stuff! It’s not so much that Lake Superior is so shallow there, it’s that the boat was so big! The Lake is over 500 feet deep where it sank. That’s deep! When you’re at the water’s surface, or descending, 100 feet is a long way down. 100 feet of water is a lot of water. But, when we see solid objects 100 feet doesn’t look that imposing. I think it’s a factor of the amount of water on the surface, and the size of the vessel. If you’re on the shore of Lake Superior looking at a ship a mile away the ship looks tiny. The ship is 700 feet long and you’re probably looking at 100 miles of horizontal lake. Lots and lots of water! If you were on the ship and dropped a bright light into the water 500 feet would seem a long, long way. You’d lose sight of the light long before it hit bottom. Yet, if you turn a 729 foot ship on its nose in 530 feet of water 2/5 of the ship is exposed, above the water!
I think I’ve seen at least two, maybe three, documentaries on the EF over the years. Husband and I are economizing and are going without satellite/cable these days so I’m not sure if any of the programs are on today. I recall that one theory involved the Great Lakes region as being a sort of Bermuda Triangle area due to the many shipwrecks.
Gloomy Ohio November. Boy, can’t wait to get there this week. I’ll try to bring along some SoCal sunshine, CW. I’ll throw as much Cleveland’s way as I can muster.
What is the form of the song…by that I mean, is a ballad or what? I’ve always been fascinated by the melody of course but it’s unusual for a pop song in that it doesn’t have a chorus, right?
“The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” is a pure ballad in the ancient tradition, like “Sir Patrick Spens” and “Lord Randall.” Nowadays any melodic song is called a ballad, but that’s not the real definition. A ballad is a song presenting a dramatic narrative of an event, generally with dialogue included.
Navigating vessels is difficult work. Christopher Columbus was brilliant at it, yet we can’t honor him any more. Modern navigators are amazed at the routes Columbus chose going to and from North and South America. They are almost ideal, yet he had no prior routes to consult. He knew how to watch the plant life and birds, fish, clouds, waves… Genius.
I’m not much into that style of music, but Gordon Lightfoot and Cat Stevens are about the only two artists in that genre I like, and I like their stuff a lot. But, like you, once Cat became Yusef Islam I stopped listening to his stuff. I don’t care that he adopted a faith different than mine, but, like you said, he sure got goofy.
If you hit this page, you can listen to the transmissions between the Arthur M. Anderson (the ship just behind the Edmund Fitzgerald when she went down) and the Coast Guard. It’s in the first comment, by “sonwatcher” – and it’s haunting.
I just wanted to point out that since some of you really liked Dr. Charlie Starr’s articles on CS Lewis, you might enjoy today’s article, which is about the depiction of God in Battlestar Galactica. It’s interesting, though I don’t fully agree with his conclusions. Since we’ve had some interesting theological debates on here, I thought some of you might be interested in checking that out as well.
Dude I went to high school with – Charles Johnson was his name – did the best Gordon Lightfoot impression ever. If you closed your eyes, you could not tell that you weren’t listening to the real thing. If you opened your eyes, you would probably notice that Charles was black, which was kind of amusing too. I don’t know that it’s possible for a singer to sound more white than Lightfoot, and to hear that voice coming out of a black guys mouth was pretty weird. Not that any of us ever gave Charles any s**t about it or anything…
“She might have broke up or she might have capsized …”
When I first moved to Wisconsin, I was reading a book on the Fitz. The neighbor, who was always off on a lot of business trips, noticed it one day. That’s when I learned he was an ocean-going tugboat captain and had worked many years in Great Lakes shipping.
The book and the song suddenly had more meaning for me then.
I think many of the men and women who work in shipping are still very similar to those in their trade who predate them by centuries, even millenia. There is something timeless about the sea and those who are drawn to it and earn their living from it seem to be timeless too. Just as all port cities seem the same, no matter what the local culture. I think it’s more than coincidence that John, Paul, George, Pete and Ringo grew up in Liverpool. Just as Gordon Lightfoot’s song would not be out of place if sung in the port of Alexandria, 2,000 years ago, the Beatles knew how to write timeless songs.
I guess we have a tendency with modern technology to forget that mariners still face great danger. It must be a truly awe-inspiring experience to be at sea, days from land.
I remember hearing this song a lot as a kid, and I was actually in my mid-twenties when I realized the “Edmund Fitzgerald” was a modern ship, it didn’t go down like 200 or 300 years ago. I’d just naturally assumed it was ancient.
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D. CA) is speaks in the tradition of a certain Democrat Senator from Illinois who gained some notoriety debating his Republican opponent back in the day.
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Okay can we officially quit dancing around it and just call the Fort Hood shooting a terrorist attack? This asshat did everything short of get in one of those mall photo booths with Bin Laden.
We can, but our Lords and Masters never will. The general made it clear–losing some people is a misfortune, but losing “diversity” would be a calamity.
Rufus, now I’ve got that song in my head. Hard to believe it’s been so long since the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. Thanks for the reminder. The skies of November here in Ohio are indeed gloomy today.
Veruckt, you’re too right. The dude is a terrorist.
Lars, I’d hate to hear Casey’s lamentations over the loss of our precious diversity in the Army. That would be the real tragedy.
It’s a cool song. I’m always astounded that the ship was almost 200 feet longer than the depth of Lake Superior at the point it sank. If it had sunk standing up 200 feet (2/3 of a football field!) of it would have been sticking straight up in the air!
I didn’t realize the lake was that shallow in that area.
Have you seen any of the programs on TLC/Discovery/and or History Channel that discuss the more bizarre theories of the sinking of the EF? I seem to recall one theory involved aliens. I could be imagining that but I’ll go with it anyway because it’s just that kind of a day. Up is down and terrorists are victims so why not have men from Mars come for the Edmund Fitzgerald?
The College Widow,
I have not seen anything on those channels about the Edmund Fitzgerald, but I’d be drawn right in if I did. I love that kind of stuff! It’s not so much that Lake Superior is so shallow there, it’s that the boat was so big! The Lake is over 500 feet deep where it sank. That’s deep! When you’re at the water’s surface, or descending, 100 feet is a long way down. 100 feet of water is a lot of water. But, when we see solid objects 100 feet doesn’t look that imposing. I think it’s a factor of the amount of water on the surface, and the size of the vessel. If you’re on the shore of Lake Superior looking at a ship a mile away the ship looks tiny. The ship is 700 feet long and you’re probably looking at 100 miles of horizontal lake. Lots and lots of water! If you were on the ship and dropped a bright light into the water 500 feet would seem a long, long way. You’d lose sight of the light long before it hit bottom. Yet, if you turn a 729 foot ship on its nose in 530 feet of water 2/5 of the ship is exposed, above the water!
Wow…that was a big-arse ship.
I think I’ve seen at least two, maybe three, documentaries on the EF over the years. Husband and I are economizing and are going without satellite/cable these days so I’m not sure if any of the programs are on today. I recall that one theory involved the Great Lakes region as being a sort of Bermuda Triangle area due to the many shipwrecks.
Gloomy Ohio November. Boy, can’t wait to get there this week. I’ll try to bring along some SoCal sunshine, CW. I’ll throw as much Cleveland’s way as I can muster.
Ah, but it’s sunny in our hearts, Eric.
Years ago, I was able to play every Gordon Lightfoot song he recorded. Cat Stevens, too, before he went goofy.
What is the form of the song…by that I mean, is a ballad or what? I’ve always been fascinated by the melody of course but it’s unusual for a pop song in that it doesn’t have a chorus, right?
“The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” is a pure ballad in the ancient tradition, like “Sir Patrick Spens” and “Lord Randall.” Nowadays any melodic song is called a ballad, but that’s not the real definition. A ballad is a song presenting a dramatic narrative of an event, generally with dialogue included.
Thanks for the info, Lars. It’s been too many years since I had music appreciation in college and learned of the various types like ballad, etc.
The song is a great tribute to the EF and I love that it works in Gitche Gumee with a rhyme. That’s a lyric one doesn’t hear everyday!
Navigating vessels is difficult work. Christopher Columbus was brilliant at it, yet we can’t honor him any more. Modern navigators are amazed at the routes Columbus chose going to and from North and South America. They are almost ideal, yet he had no prior routes to consult. He knew how to watch the plant life and birds, fish, clouds, waves… Genius.
I’m not much into that style of music, but Gordon Lightfoot and Cat Stevens are about the only two artists in that genre I like, and I like their stuff a lot. But, like you, once Cat became Yusef Islam I stopped listening to his stuff. I don’t care that he adopted a faith different than mine, but, like you said, he sure got goofy.
If you hit this page, you can listen to the transmissions between the Arthur M. Anderson (the ship just behind the Edmund Fitzgerald when she went down) and the Coast Guard. It’s in the first comment, by “sonwatcher” – and it’s haunting.
And this would be the actual link:
http://www.worldwidedx.com/announcements-open-forum/19688-edmund-fitzgerald-radio-transmission.html
Oh, good, we’ve got an open thread for the day.
I just wanted to point out that since some of you really liked Dr. Charlie Starr’s articles on CS Lewis, you might enjoy today’s article, which is about the depiction of God in Battlestar Galactica. It’s interesting, though I don’t fully agree with his conclusions. Since we’ve had some interesting theological debates on here, I thought some of you might be interested in checking that out as well.
http://www.republibot.com/content/science-fiction-university-galactica%E2%80%99s-gods-or-how-i-learned-stop-worrying-and-love-cylon-go
Dude I went to high school with – Charles Johnson was his name – did the best Gordon Lightfoot impression ever. If you closed your eyes, you could not tell that you weren’t listening to the real thing. If you opened your eyes, you would probably notice that Charles was black, which was kind of amusing too. I don’t know that it’s possible for a singer to sound more white than Lightfoot, and to hear that voice coming out of a black guys mouth was pretty weird. Not that any of us ever gave Charles any s**t about it or anything…
“She might have broke up or she might have capsized …”
When I first moved to Wisconsin, I was reading a book on the Fitz. The neighbor, who was always off on a lot of business trips, noticed it one day. That’s when I learned he was an ocean-going tugboat captain and had worked many years in Great Lakes shipping.
The book and the song suddenly had more meaning for me then.
I think many of the men and women who work in shipping are still very similar to those in their trade who predate them by centuries, even millenia. There is something timeless about the sea and those who are drawn to it and earn their living from it seem to be timeless too. Just as all port cities seem the same, no matter what the local culture. I think it’s more than coincidence that John, Paul, George, Pete and Ringo grew up in Liverpool. Just as Gordon Lightfoot’s song would not be out of place if sung in the port of Alexandria, 2,000 years ago, the Beatles knew how to write timeless songs.
I guess we have a tendency with modern technology to forget that mariners still face great danger. It must be a truly awe-inspiring experience to be at sea, days from land.
I remember hearing this song a lot as a kid, and I was actually in my mid-twenties when I realized the “Edmund Fitzgerald” was a modern ship, it didn’t go down like 200 or 300 years ago. I’d just naturally assumed it was ancient.
I didn’t realize how awesome the Raptor is:
http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/index_da.swf?fa=armytimes&wa=armytimes&wd=575&ht=324&cp=21772&bw=&state=vid&em=false&fn=/flv/20080714_rc_f22
Too bad this administration tanked it. I hope the F-35 is as good.
No it’s not…they were designed for different tasks.
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D. CA) is speaks in the tradition of a certain Democrat Senator from Illinois who gained some notoriety debating his Republican opponent back in the day.