<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Damn Nation!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119</link>
	<description>These are our principles.  If you don&#039;t like them, we have others...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:04:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56770</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56770</guid>
		<description>Oh!  Now I get it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh!  Now I get it!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56752</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56752</guid>
		<description>Nah, he was going for &quot;Butt Package Store.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah, he was going for &#8220;Butt Package Store.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56730</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56730</guid>
		<description>&quot;Butt Proprietor of Wine and Spirits?&quot;

I don&#039;t get it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Butt Proprietor of Wine and Spirits?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get it&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56719</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56719</guid>
		<description>Delayed laughter is better than no laughter at all.  I once made the offhand comment to my wife (then fiancee) as we were passing a liquor store that I wanted to buy a liquor store and name it &quot;Butt&quot;.  That&#039;s all I said.  5 minutes later she started laughing hard.  She STILL married me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delayed laughter is better than no laughter at all.  I once made the offhand comment to my wife (then fiancee) as we were passing a liquor store that I wanted to buy a liquor store and name it &#8220;Butt&#8221;.  That&#8217;s all I said.  5 minutes later she started laughing hard.  She STILL married me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy, txmom2many</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56714</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy, txmom2many</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56714</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  I will have to come back after my coffee has kicked in.  I just figured out last night that your title Whiskey Tango Foxtrot was WTF (and it made me laugh really hard).....I&#039;m running a bit slow lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  I will have to come back after my coffee has kicked in.  I just figured out last night that your title Whiskey Tango Foxtrot was WTF (and it made me laugh really hard)&#8230;..I&#8217;m running a bit slow lately.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56646</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56646</guid>
		<description>Lars,

&lt;em&gt;&quot;You can’t have an idea of personal redemption without a belief that one needs to be redeemed *from* something. Which is Hell.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

I understand that, of course, and that&#039;s probably why the Economists made that the element they were testing for; it&#039;s easy to ascertain it&#039;s presence in a culture.  But I wonder if the salvation isn&#039;t the important ingredient.  In other words, we, in the West, believe we literally control our own destinies.  Even if one is not religious that independence permeates our culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lars,</p>
<p><em>&#8220;You can’t have an idea of personal redemption without a belief that one needs to be redeemed *from* something. Which is Hell.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>I understand that, of course, and that&#8217;s probably why the Economists made that the element they were testing for; it&#8217;s easy to ascertain it&#8217;s presence in a culture.  But I wonder if the salvation isn&#8217;t the important ingredient.  In other words, we, in the West, believe we literally control our own destinies.  Even if one is not religious that independence permeates our culture.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lars Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56639</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56639</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t have an idea of personal redemption without a belief that one needs to be redeemed *from* something. Which is Hell.

There&#039;s an old evangelist&#039;s image that I like. It goes like this. Imagine getting on a plane, and the flight attendant hands you a parachute and says, &quot;We&#039;d like you to have this chute. It will greatly enhance your flying experience.&quot;

So you take the chute, and discover it&#039;s the most uncomfortable thing in the world. There&#039;s no way to sit in the seat with that thing on. You start looking for ways to get rid of it.

Now, imagine that, during the flight, the attendant brings you a parachute and says, &quot;You&#039;d better take this chute. We&#039;ve lost all our engines, and we&#039;re going to crash.&quot;

Suddenly the chute becomes your most precious possession.

It&#039;s like Dr. Johnson&#039;s comment on the prospect of being hanged in a fortnight. It concentrates the mind wonderfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t have an idea of personal redemption without a belief that one needs to be redeemed *from* something. Which is Hell.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an old evangelist&#8217;s image that I like. It goes like this. Imagine getting on a plane, and the flight attendant hands you a parachute and says, &#8220;We&#8217;d like you to have this chute. It will greatly enhance your flying experience.&#8221;</p>
<p>So you take the chute, and discover it&#8217;s the most uncomfortable thing in the world. There&#8217;s no way to sit in the seat with that thing on. You start looking for ways to get rid of it.</p>
<p>Now, imagine that, during the flight, the attendant brings you a parachute and says, &#8220;You&#8217;d better take this chute. We&#8217;ve lost all our engines, and we&#8217;re going to crash.&#8221;</p>
<p>Suddenly the chute becomes your most precious possession.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like Dr. Johnson&#8217;s comment on the prospect of being hanged in a fortnight. It concentrates the mind wonderfully.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56635</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56635</guid>
		<description>By George, I think I&#039;ve got it!

Thanks for posting this Floyd, and thanks for the comments all!

So I read this and your comments and I started to think about post WWII Japan and post revolutionary Russia and China.  All three had a religious like fervor based on the state.  People believed in the state, believed their hard work and sacrifice would result in a better life for future generations, and there was quite a bit of progress in all 3 nations.  But, no Hell.

The study says a lack of belief in damnation is a fatal flaw, but I&#039;m not so sure.  I think it may have more to do with a societal belief in individual salvation.  If one believes in Hell one believes one can be saved, and if one believes one can be saved one believes one has personal control over one&#039;s destiny.  Post WWII Japan and post revolutionary China and Russia believed in communal sacrifice, sacrifice for the good of the collective.  Christians believe in personal sacrifice, sacrifice to save one&#039;s soul.

Now, why might that matter economically?  The believer in Hell believes he or she controls his or her own destiny.  He or she is willing to sacrifice personally to improve his or her spiritual life, and, likely, personal and material life also.

I wonder if the real differentiator isn&#039;t a belief in Hell, but a belief in personal redemption?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By George, I think I&#8217;ve got it!</p>
<p>Thanks for posting this Floyd, and thanks for the comments all!</p>
<p>So I read this and your comments and I started to think about post WWII Japan and post revolutionary Russia and China.  All three had a religious like fervor based on the state.  People believed in the state, believed their hard work and sacrifice would result in a better life for future generations, and there was quite a bit of progress in all 3 nations.  But, no Hell.</p>
<p>The study says a lack of belief in damnation is a fatal flaw, but I&#8217;m not so sure.  I think it may have more to do with a societal belief in individual salvation.  If one believes in Hell one believes one can be saved, and if one believes one can be saved one believes one has personal control over one&#8217;s destiny.  Post WWII Japan and post revolutionary China and Russia believed in communal sacrifice, sacrifice for the good of the collective.  Christians believe in personal sacrifice, sacrifice to save one&#8217;s soul.</p>
<p>Now, why might that matter economically?  The believer in Hell believes he or she controls his or her own destiny.  He or she is willing to sacrifice personally to improve his or her spiritual life, and, likely, personal and material life also.</p>
<p>I wonder if the real differentiator isn&#8217;t a belief in Hell, but a belief in personal redemption?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blackhawk12151</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56626</link>
		<dc:creator>blackhawk12151</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56626</guid>
		<description>By &quot;children&quot; I mean &quot;descendants&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;children&#8221; I mean &#8220;descendants&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blackhawk12151</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16119/comment-page-1#comment-56625</link>
		<dc:creator>blackhawk12151</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16119#comment-56625</guid>
		<description>This is where I tend to part ways with a lot of agnostic minded libertarians. Secular values are not conducive to long standing societies. They do not promote generational values. A belief in God, hell, ultimate accountability, lead to people thinking less about the here and now and more about their legacy, both generationally (i.e. their children) and eternally.

The self-justifiers, as Floyd puts it (quite accurately by the way, I&#039;ll probably be stealing that) do not perpetuate these same generational values. They strive for self-perfection, an unreasonable and impossible goal. A good example of eternal and generational living comes from Jeremiah 29:11:
 
11&#039;For I know the plans that I have for you,&#039; declares the LORD, &#039;plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.

That promise was given to the pre-exiles in Babylon, they died in exile. The people who were alive to receive that promise never lived to see it fulfilled, but their children did. Christianity is not about there here and now, but rather about the eternal. It is not hard to believe that this would also lead to economic growth because they both involve discipline, hard work, and a vision that goes past next week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is where I tend to part ways with a lot of agnostic minded libertarians. Secular values are not conducive to long standing societies. They do not promote generational values. A belief in God, hell, ultimate accountability, lead to people thinking less about the here and now and more about their legacy, both generationally (i.e. their children) and eternally.</p>
<p>The self-justifiers, as Floyd puts it (quite accurately by the way, I&#8217;ll probably be stealing that) do not perpetuate these same generational values. They strive for self-perfection, an unreasonable and impossible goal. A good example of eternal and generational living comes from Jeremiah 29:11:</p>
<p>11&#8242;For I know the plans that I have for you,&#8217; declares the LORD, &#8216;plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.</p>
<p>That promise was given to the pre-exiles in Babylon, they died in exile. The people who were alive to receive that promise never lived to see it fulfilled, but their children did. Christianity is not about there here and now, but rather about the eternal. It is not hard to believe that this would also lead to economic growth because they both involve discipline, hard work, and a vision that goes past next week.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
