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	<title>Comments on: California raises tuition, students act accordingly</title>
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	<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421</link>
	<description>These are our principles.  If you don&#039;t like them, we have others...</description>
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		<title>By: JohnFN</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57422</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57422</guid>
		<description>God, Rhodes was a character. I worked at a full-service gas station in a small town in north central Ohio for a time. My boss told me Rhodes used to stop by and get gas from time to time when driving between Cleveland and Columbus. My boss told Rhodes he hoped &quot;he would kick the motherf***ing s*** out of Celeste,&quot; which Rhodes loved. 

When Cincinnati rioted and the Democratic city government did little to halt the violence, many a person wished Rhodes was still around. He was the type that would have marched the riot police into the city himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God, Rhodes was a character. I worked at a full-service gas station in a small town in north central Ohio for a time. My boss told me Rhodes used to stop by and get gas from time to time when driving between Cleveland and Columbus. My boss told Rhodes he hoped &#8220;he would kick the motherf***ing s*** out of Celeste,&#8221; which Rhodes loved. </p>
<p>When Cincinnati rioted and the Democratic city government did little to halt the violence, many a person wished Rhodes was still around. He was the type that would have marched the riot police into the city himself.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy, txmom2many</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57398</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy, txmom2many</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57398</guid>
		<description>YES!!  That is what I believe.  If my kids need a college degree to do what they are called to do, we will find a way to get it, and be glad to do it.  I&#039;m not against a degree and truly respect those who get them.  However, it will not be a babysitting service until you figure it out, nor will we be paying $12000 to learn what could be learned better and faster for 4.  

I don&#039;t believe a college education is bad, but I do believe that a good liberal arts education shouldn&#039;t START in college.  For me, the first two years of college was basically the last two years of high school, except with more beer and sex.  Not that there&#039;s anything wrong with that, but I could have just spent a lot more time drinking without having a college loan to pay off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YES!!  That is what I believe.  If my kids need a college degree to do what they are called to do, we will find a way to get it, and be glad to do it.  I&#8217;m not against a degree and truly respect those who get them.  However, it will not be a babysitting service until you figure it out, nor will we be paying $12000 to learn what could be learned better and faster for 4.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe a college education is bad, but I do believe that a good liberal arts education shouldn&#8217;t START in college.  For me, the first two years of college was basically the last two years of high school, except with more beer and sex.  Not that there&#8217;s anything wrong with that, but I could have just spent a lot more time drinking without having a college loan to pay off.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57391</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57391</guid>
		<description>Amen, Brother Floyd.  At least 50% of the degrees offered are really trades, and should be taught in trade schools.  This is one thing Europe still does much, much better than we.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Brother Floyd.  At least 50% of the degrees offered are really trades, and should be taught in trade schools.  This is one thing Europe still does much, much better than we.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57386</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57386</guid>
		<description>(I did not see Floyd&#039;s reply prior to typing mine...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I did not see Floyd&#8217;s reply prior to typing mine&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57385</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57385</guid>
		<description>Can I get an Amen?
Amen!  Brother , G-Man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I get an Amen?<br />
Amen!  Brother , G-Man!</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57384</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57384</guid>
		<description>Tracy,

I&#039;ve had that same conversation with equally moronic people.  If you truly view these kids as resorting to a &quot;last resort&quot; why wouldn&#039;t you be thrilled at the greatness of the last resort the U.S. military is?  What better institution is there to turn young men and women into assets to society?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracy,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had that same conversation with equally moronic people.  If you truly view these kids as resorting to a &#8220;last resort&#8221; why wouldn&#8217;t you be thrilled at the greatness of the last resort the U.S. military is?  What better institution is there to turn young men and women into assets to society?</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57331</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57331</guid>
		<description>&quot;I also believe student course evaluations are over emphasized, as if a student’s opinion about what constitutes an appropriate course load is informed.&quot;

RES... that is music to my ears.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I also believe student course evaluations are over emphasized, as if a student’s opinion about what constitutes an appropriate course load is informed.&#8221;</p>
<p>RES&#8230; that is music to my ears.  <img src='http://www.threedonia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: RES</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57319</link>
		<dc:creator>RES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57319</guid>
		<description>Floyd,
Thanks for the data re: cost cuts.  I was aware that universities are using adjuncts (one of the costs imposed by our current system of &quot;research&quot; colleges requiring light classroom loads, costs of tenure and the &quot;work rules&quot; required by accrediting bodies ... which opens a whole new topic I will eschew at present.)

Your second comment addresses the point I was attempting to make about the long-term costs of keeping prices artificially low.  Had the universities imposed tuition prices more in line with their actual costs they would not now be having to boost tuition so drastically (assuming they hadn&#039;t simply pissed away the extra funds in higher operating costs for things like climbing walls or large screen plasma televisions in dorm common rooms ... or free beer at student festivities.)

The difference between students as customers and students spending their own monies is that in the latter case students are concerned about value received.  CC students are more typically buying knowledge than &quot;GPS and a degree.&quot;  I share your view about too many students using college as an opportunity to delay maturing and assuming responsibility for their lives (aka: living off mommy &amp; daddy without having to explain where you&#039;ve been and what you&#039;re doing coming in at that hour in that condition.)  I also believe student course evaluations are over emphasized, as if a student&#039;s opinion about what constitutes an appropriate course load is informed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Floyd,<br />
Thanks for the data re: cost cuts.  I was aware that universities are using adjuncts (one of the costs imposed by our current system of &#8220;research&#8221; colleges requiring light classroom loads, costs of tenure and the &#8220;work rules&#8221; required by accrediting bodies &#8230; which opens a whole new topic I will eschew at present.)</p>
<p>Your second comment addresses the point I was attempting to make about the long-term costs of keeping prices artificially low.  Had the universities imposed tuition prices more in line with their actual costs they would not now be having to boost tuition so drastically (assuming they hadn&#8217;t simply pissed away the extra funds in higher operating costs for things like climbing walls or large screen plasma televisions in dorm common rooms &#8230; or free beer at student festivities.)</p>
<p>The difference between students as customers and students spending their own monies is that in the latter case students are concerned about value received.  CC students are more typically buying knowledge than &#8220;GPS and a degree.&#8221;  I share your view about too many students using college as an opportunity to delay maturing and assuming responsibility for their lives (aka: living off mommy &amp; daddy without having to explain where you&#8217;ve been and what you&#8217;re doing coming in at that hour in that condition.)  I also believe student course evaluations are over emphasized, as if a student&#8217;s opinion about what constitutes an appropriate course load is informed.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57313</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16421#comment-57313</guid>
		<description>Students as customers.... but it&#039;s not an unalloyed good and can be bad.  &quot;The customer is always right&quot; is no way to run a university.  Most students are buying a GPA and a degree -- not paying to be put through their paces by a professor with high standards who will fail them.  There&#039;s a balance between top-down and the business model to be sure -- I&#039;m not sure what that is.

The other modification I would do (Lord help me) is get rid of about half our universities.  A lot of the students have no interest in or capability to pursue &quot;the life of the mind&quot; and there&#039;s absolutely nothing wrong with that.  If our high schools (and by that I mean parents) were doing their jobs then two years at a CC to learn a trade or pick up practical training would be enough for most people to earn a living and maybe decide if they wanted to pursue a higher education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Students as customers&#8230;. but it&#8217;s not an unalloyed good and can be bad.  &#8220;The customer is always right&#8221; is no way to run a university.  Most students are buying a GPA and a degree &#8212; not paying to be put through their paces by a professor with high standards who will fail them.  There&#8217;s a balance between top-down and the business model to be sure &#8212; I&#8217;m not sure what that is.</p>
<p>The other modification I would do (Lord help me) is get rid of about half our universities.  A lot of the students have no interest in or capability to pursue &#8220;the life of the mind&#8221; and there&#8217;s absolutely nothing wrong with that.  If our high schools (and by that I mean parents) were doing their jobs then two years at a CC to learn a trade or pick up practical training would be enough for most people to earn a living and maybe decide if they wanted to pursue a higher education.</p>
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		<title>By: G-MAN</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16421/comment-page-1#comment-57304</link>
		<dc:creator>G-MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Around here, the Community Colleges are in the same system, with the same waste as the universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Around here, the Community Colleges are in the same system, with the same waste as the universities.</p>
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