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	<title>Comments on: The Cult of the New</title>
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	<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438</link>
	<description>These are our principles.  If you don&#039;t like them, we have others...</description>
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		<title>By: Republibot 3.0</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57486</link>
		<dc:creator>Republibot 3.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57486</guid>
		<description>Are any of us in this discussion teachers? I just feel like we need to include at least one as a reality check. Speaking as a fairly smart kid who was a fairly poor student, if I were to list the things I felt my teachers did wrong, I think I&#039;d probably end up with a very different list than what my teachers themselves felt they did wrong. I&#039;ve actually talked to a few of my friends who&#039;ve gone on to be teachers in different states over the years on this very subject, and they have massive complaints about the system, about the method, about the material, about the politics, but they&#039;re not the ones I would have thought of on the receiving end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are any of us in this discussion teachers? I just feel like we need to include at least one as a reality check. Speaking as a fairly smart kid who was a fairly poor student, if I were to list the things I felt my teachers did wrong, I think I&#8217;d probably end up with a very different list than what my teachers themselves felt they did wrong. I&#8217;ve actually talked to a few of my friends who&#8217;ve gone on to be teachers in different states over the years on this very subject, and they have massive complaints about the system, about the method, about the material, about the politics, but they&#8217;re not the ones I would have thought of on the receiving end.</p>
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		<title>By: RES</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57457</link>
		<dc:creator>RES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57457</guid>
		<description>Are we wrong to believe the goal of education is to produce an educated person?

John T. Gatto has persuasively argued that the system&#039;s goal is to produce a &quot;schooled&quot; person, something quite different from an educated one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we wrong to believe the goal of education is to produce an educated person?</p>
<p>John T. Gatto has persuasively argued that the system&#8217;s goal is to produce a &#8220;schooled&#8221; person, something quite different from an educated one.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57382</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57382</guid>
		<description>In other words, &quot;it ain&#039;t rocket science,&quot; and, to all the educators who are convinced we are living in a new era, &quot;this too shall pass.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, &#8220;it ain&#8217;t rocket science,&#8221; and, to all the educators who are convinced we are living in a new era, &#8220;this too shall pass.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57381</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57381</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to brag, but any parent would be thrilled to have the grades and standardized test scores of the only one of the Little Fireflies to, as yet, attend High School.  He attends an inner-city, Jesuit school where the only kids using computers are the kids taking electives in programming. He can translate Homer and Julius Caesar from the original texts and is conversant in the English spoken by Shakespeare and Chauser.  Except for a few novels, his list of required texts could be identical to what the school used in the &#039;50&#039;s; perhaps even in the 1880&#039;s.

His teachers are subject matter experts.  By and large they are men, and his school is not Co-Ed.  He is taught by men, and he and his peers are taught to be men.  Discipline is strict.  You might get two strikes but you don&#039;t get three.  Community service is mandatory.  They are taught that they are damn lucky to have the opportunities they have and they are taught to help others who do not have those opportunities.  Boys who do not dress appropriately or mind their instructors are often pinned against a locker by an instructor when the incident happens.  Very few boys fail to learn the lesson by their first offense.  In other words, it&#039;s an old fashioned school.  This school has churned out leaders in every generation of American society almost since their has been an America and I&#039;m confident the digital revolution will not make their methods obsolete any more than all the other revolutions of the past 150 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to brag, but any parent would be thrilled to have the grades and standardized test scores of the only one of the Little Fireflies to, as yet, attend High School.  He attends an inner-city, Jesuit school where the only kids using computers are the kids taking electives in programming. He can translate Homer and Julius Caesar from the original texts and is conversant in the English spoken by Shakespeare and Chauser.  Except for a few novels, his list of required texts could be identical to what the school used in the &#8217;50&#8242;s; perhaps even in the 1880&#8242;s.</p>
<p>His teachers are subject matter experts.  By and large they are men, and his school is not Co-Ed.  He is taught by men, and he and his peers are taught to be men.  Discipline is strict.  You might get two strikes but you don&#8217;t get three.  Community service is mandatory.  They are taught that they are damn lucky to have the opportunities they have and they are taught to help others who do not have those opportunities.  Boys who do not dress appropriately or mind their instructors are often pinned against a locker by an instructor when the incident happens.  Very few boys fail to learn the lesson by their first offense.  In other words, it&#8217;s an old fashioned school.  This school has churned out leaders in every generation of American society almost since their has been an America and I&#8217;m confident the digital revolution will not make their methods obsolete any more than all the other revolutions of the past 150 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57380</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57380</guid>
		<description>&quot;Wax on.  Wax off.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Wax on.  Wax off.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57353</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57353</guid>
		<description>Thank you so much for using the mighty Schoolhouse Rock, Floyd. Couldn&#039;t have been more excited when back in Ohio last week and my 9-year-old niece expressed a full-on love affair with the soundtrack to my Hanna Barbera-watching cartoon years. Christmas presents could not be easier this year, for her or my 7-year-old nephew. 2-year-old nephew? Loves books and being read to, so also easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much for using the mighty Schoolhouse Rock, Floyd. Couldn&#8217;t have been more excited when back in Ohio last week and my 9-year-old niece expressed a full-on love affair with the soundtrack to my Hanna Barbera-watching cartoon years. Christmas presents could not be easier this year, for her or my 7-year-old nephew. 2-year-old nephew? Loves books and being read to, so also easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Helm</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57351</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Helm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57351</guid>
		<description>Much of teaching today is based on finding out how individual students learn and adapting a lesson plan that adds that catering to it. You do have to do that when you have special ed. kids in the class, or struggling readers from households that didn&#039;t think reading was amongst the things they needed to teach their kids prior to schooling. But they also expect you to do this for kids who are behavioral basket cases. So much psychiatrist and behavior analyst bullshit backs up the education system because you have to cater to some kid who&#039;s just an intelligent animal because his/her parents have no boundaries or dire consequences (aka ass slapping) when they F up. The grief these kids bestow upon you makes you not give two shits about them. Luckily, the ones in my class who are like that are above-level readers so I can just condemn then to the corners of the room for the rest of the year if I need to and not worry about their grades. 

My main point is that it&#039;s a cross between education&#039;s numerous failed social experiments and ineffective modern parenting that adds to even more social experiments in education. There was nothing wrong with the education system that most of us 40-year-olds and older got in the 70s or before, since most of us, and my colleagues at work, are from that same generation. But now it&#039;s constantly changing and all I see is failure after failure. A lot of it is just PC bullshit, too. 

I had a Classroom Management course that finished last week, and we made posters for classroom rules and consequences to hang in our classrooms at school. The instructor loved my consequences poster, but at the last minute said that the font I chose, which is all caps, makes it seem like it&#039;s shouting at the kids. She made me change fonts and style so I wasn&#039;t &quot;shouting&quot; anymore. This is how retarded things have become.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of teaching today is based on finding out how individual students learn and adapting a lesson plan that adds that catering to it. You do have to do that when you have special ed. kids in the class, or struggling readers from households that didn&#8217;t think reading was amongst the things they needed to teach their kids prior to schooling. But they also expect you to do this for kids who are behavioral basket cases. So much psychiatrist and behavior analyst bullshit backs up the education system because you have to cater to some kid who&#8217;s just an intelligent animal because his/her parents have no boundaries or dire consequences (aka ass slapping) when they F up. The grief these kids bestow upon you makes you not give two shits about them. Luckily, the ones in my class who are like that are above-level readers so I can just condemn then to the corners of the room for the rest of the year if I need to and not worry about their grades. </p>
<p>My main point is that it&#8217;s a cross between education&#8217;s numerous failed social experiments and ineffective modern parenting that adds to even more social experiments in education. There was nothing wrong with the education system that most of us 40-year-olds and older got in the 70s or before, since most of us, and my colleagues at work, are from that same generation. But now it&#8217;s constantly changing and all I see is failure after failure. A lot of it is just PC bullshit, too. </p>
<p>I had a Classroom Management course that finished last week, and we made posters for classroom rules and consequences to hang in our classrooms at school. The instructor loved my consequences poster, but at the last minute said that the font I chose, which is all caps, makes it seem like it&#8217;s shouting at the kids. She made me change fonts and style so I wasn&#8217;t &#8220;shouting&#8221; anymore. This is how retarded things have become.</p>
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		<title>By: RES</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57346</link>
		<dc:creator>RES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57346</guid>
		<description>Outlaw - to an extent, what you (Richard Bach) describe is what many home-schoolers strive to achieve.  In a world in which knowledge/data/facts often become obsolete (read Bill Bryson&#039;s &quot;A Short History of Nearly Everything&quot; for a history of modern science and a reminder of how consistently &quot;everything we know&quot; is proven wrong within one lifetime) and human lifespans are approaching eternal, the one essential skill is self-instruction.  This is particularly so as employers become less willing/able to train employees and as the idea of working for one employer (in one field0 one&#039;s entire working life becomes increasingly delusional.

Meanwhile, what passes for education today is content free nonsense suitable to create the illusion of activity without permitting any measurable demonstration of achievement.  As the joke went in the Soviet union: we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outlaw &#8211; to an extent, what you (Richard Bach) describe is what many home-schoolers strive to achieve.  In a world in which knowledge/data/facts often become obsolete (read Bill Bryson&#8217;s &#8220;A Short History of Nearly Everything&#8221; for a history of modern science and a reminder of how consistently &#8220;everything we know&#8221; is proven wrong within one lifetime) and human lifespans are approaching eternal, the one essential skill is self-instruction.  This is particularly so as employers become less willing/able to train employees and as the idea of working for one employer (in one field0 one&#8217;s entire working life becomes increasingly delusional.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, what passes for education today is content free nonsense suitable to create the illusion of activity without permitting any measurable demonstration of achievement.  As the joke went in the Soviet union: we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us.</p>
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		<title>By: Outlaw13</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57320</link>
		<dc:creator>Outlaw13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57320</guid>
		<description>Richard Bach, aviation writer extraordinaire, once wrote a short story about how he would teach people to fly.  I think his theory is interesting in this case because he indirectly addresses this thing about Millennials and digital natives long before anyone thought up such tripe.

His vision (in this story), was a place where someone who wanted to learn how to fly would only truly &quot;learn&quot; if he first studied the birds, then build his own glider, then a Wright flyer, then a Curtis Jenny and so on through history.  It was sort of a Kung Fu kind of school where you &quot;experience&quot; flight and of course would never exist, but the point was there is something to learn from all ages of our existence.  If you read this story which he wrote before he penned Jonathan Livingston Seagull, you can sort of see the whole point of the seagull book in the making, but I digress. 

Can anyone really appreciate what we have today, be it i-pods, computers or anything else without at least learning about what came before?

I don&#039;t buy that line about &quot;we have to teach these (punks) a certain way because they&#039;ve been raised in a different time and can&#039;t or won&#039;t learn like (the old-folks) did&quot;.  Experience has shown me that people are quite adaptable, and given enough motivation they can do amazing things.  Things that may even amaze themselves.

Touchy feely douche-bags are going to be the death of this nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Bach, aviation writer extraordinaire, once wrote a short story about how he would teach people to fly.  I think his theory is interesting in this case because he indirectly addresses this thing about Millennials and digital natives long before anyone thought up such tripe.</p>
<p>His vision (in this story), was a place where someone who wanted to learn how to fly would only truly &#8220;learn&#8221; if he first studied the birds, then build his own glider, then a Wright flyer, then a Curtis Jenny and so on through history.  It was sort of a Kung Fu kind of school where you &#8220;experience&#8221; flight and of course would never exist, but the point was there is something to learn from all ages of our existence.  If you read this story which he wrote before he penned Jonathan Livingston Seagull, you can sort of see the whole point of the seagull book in the making, but I digress. </p>
<p>Can anyone really appreciate what we have today, be it i-pods, computers or anything else without at least learning about what came before?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t buy that line about &#8220;we have to teach these (punks) a certain way because they&#8217;ve been raised in a different time and can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t learn like (the old-folks) did&#8221;.  Experience has shown me that people are quite adaptable, and given enough motivation they can do amazing things.  Things that may even amaze themselves.</p>
<p>Touchy feely douche-bags are going to be the death of this nation.</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonia.com/archives/16438/comment-page-1#comment-57316</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonia.com/?p=16438#comment-57316</guid>
		<description>Experience without intellectual aspects is not usually good just as all knowledge and no experience is not good.

University should be a time to hash out ideas and talk about and argue the big picture: values, culture, character, etc.  Where all those fit into out Western experience -- where have we been and where are we going kind of questions.

  The argument that some professors have &quot;no real world&quot; experience is a bit of a canard.  I know plenty of people with life experience to burn but don&#039;t know shit about life.  Knowledge is a tool -- if one has it but doesn&#039;t know how to use it -- it is useless.  

Of course -- it&#039;s easy for me since  I have real world experience.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Experience without intellectual aspects is not usually good just as all knowledge and no experience is not good.</p>
<p>University should be a time to hash out ideas and talk about and argue the big picture: values, culture, character, etc.  Where all those fit into out Western experience &#8212; where have we been and where are we going kind of questions.</p>
<p>  The argument that some professors have &#8220;no real world&#8221; experience is a bit of a canard.  I know plenty of people with life experience to burn but don&#8217;t know shit about life.  Knowledge is a tool &#8212; if one has it but doesn&#8217;t know how to use it &#8212; it is useless.  </p>
<p>Of course &#8212; it&#8217;s easy for me since  I have real world experience.  <img src='http://www.threedonia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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